4th of July

Can't think of a greater oxymoron. CNN and celebrating America. Geesh Barry.

Brenda M

2020-07-02 03:24:15 UTC

Actually, CNN’s ratings are through the roof these days.

Guess a lot of folks disagree with you.

And .. do you really have to get political here?

q***@gmail.com

2020-07-05 00:29:07 UTC

Post by Brenda M
Actually, CNN’s ratings are through the roof these days.
Guess a lot of folks disagree with you.
And .. do you really have to get political here?

--

Totally agree, Brenda. Please go to your political boards for that.

h***@aol.com

2020-07-05 16:48:31 UTC

I really don't post a lot of political stuff on here normally, but I saw that some people rant about President Trump without being called out, so I thought it was ok. What's good for the goose..... ;)

Chris

marvin

2020-07-02 17:17:26 UTC

Thank you for posting this event Sharon. The only thing that confuses me is whether the show is a highlights of past 4th of July concerts by Barry and the other performers or if this would be a live event, performed at home by Barry and the other performers. I guess we will know on July 4. Happy Independence Day, Marvin

dcsharon

2020-07-02 18:14:51 UTC

Post by marvin
Thank you for posting this event Sharon. The only thing that confuses me is whether the show is a highlights of past 4th of July concerts by Barry and the other performers or if this would be a live event, performed at home by Barry and the other performers. I guess we will know on July 4. Happy Independence Day, Marvin

I suspect it's going to be snippets from prior Capitol 4th Shows, but I honestly don't know. The celebrities can't really do the big song/dance numbers from their homes. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

(DC) Sharon

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-02 20:14:20 UTC

Post by dcsharon
CNN is hosting "The Fourth in America" July 4th from 8pm ET to 12 Midnight.
Barry is scheduled to appear.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/us/cnn-fourth-of-july/index.html
(DC) Sharon

Oh crap I'm working a double on July 4th! will DVR this puppy....

Annie

marvin

2020-07-03 01:52:02 UTC

Odds are good that whether Barry will be performing live from his home or if this is a video clip, the song performed will be "Let Freedom Ring". Thanks, Marvin

Maria M

2020-07-04 14:32:03 UTC

I wouldn’t mind “live from their homes” performances. I’d actually prefer that to old recorded clips. This is our new normal and I just enjoy seeing everyone live- and alive!

Maria

k***@gmail.com

2020-07-05 11:36:45 UTC

Was he actually on? I fast forwarded through and didn’t see him.

HallieR

2020-07-05 14:34:03 UTC

Was not able to watch, but yes. He was on around 11pm, about 3 hours in.

h***@aol.com

2020-07-05 16:51:00 UTC

I don't post political stuff on here normally, but I saw that some people rant about President Trump, so I thought it was ok. When the Trump bashing ends, I will take that as my cue to refrain from all political commenting.

Chris

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-05 23:06:26 UTC

Post by h***@aol.com
I don't post political stuff on here normally, but I saw that some people rant about President Trump, so I thought it was ok. When the Trump bashing ends, I will take that as my cue to refrain from all political commenting.
Chris

Chris,

Please take your MAGA crap elsewhere. No one here is interested in buying what you're selling.

Annie

h***@aol.com

2020-07-05 23:15:41 UTC

Sorry Annie. I know that there are other people who post here that also support our President. I am not alone. And, I might add, I have been here FAR longer than you have, so YOU might want to take your UN-MAGA crap elsewhere. By the way, I thoroughly enjoy your non-political posts.

Chris

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-06 00:06:16 UTC

Post by h***@aol.com
Sorry Annie. I know that there are other people who post here that also support our President. I am not alone. And, I might add, I have been here FAR longer than you have, so YOU might want to take your UN-MAGA crap elsewhere. By the way, I thoroughly enjoy your non-political posts.
Chris

I do not give a shit what you enjoy. I do not respect you. Your support of trump speaks to your moral character and it disgusts me. You are toxic.
I have nothing more to say to you, not now, not ever.

Annie

h***@aol.com

2020-07-06 11:13:37 UTC

Annie, I DO give a shit what you enjoy. I respect you. Your non-support of Trump tells me that you do not support America. You are a person who needs to be heard. I have plenty more to say to you, now, and forever. And the great thing about America is that you have the freedom to have your opinions... but so do I.

Chris

2020-07-07 03:22:50 UTC

Seems to me that the idea of "not supporting Trump" somehow equalling "not supporting America" has got things totally bass-ackwards.

But then again, this has gone on for years. The Dixie Chicks got all kinds of threats because how DARE they say they were ashamed of Bush Junior? But Obama-bashing was somehow "protecting the country." (OMG! He wore... a TAN SUIT!!! Quelle horreur!!!) And now we're back to "if you don't support the Orange Menace, you hate America." Which, I guess, means that white supremacists and those "very fine people" in Charlottesville just love this country more than words or swastikas can possibly say.

I do NOT support the current occupant of the White House in any way, shape, or form. I've never tried to hide that fact, and I will do everything within my power to make sure he not only does NOT get a second term, but gets held accountable for the things he did during the first one, to the fullest extent of the law. But for anyone to come and tell me that I somehow hate America is total bull shytte. What I hate... is what this mis-administration, the Attoady General, and the eunuchs masquerading as GOP Senators have allowed this country to become.

And with that, my commentary is ended. I'm TRYING not to get into wars on here. It ain't worth it. Keep politics out of it, and this group is capable of some interesting discussion.

l***@gmail.com

2020-07-07 13:09:43 UTC

Like I said, when you all stop the Trump-bashing, then I will take your request to remove political posts seriously. We Conservatives are no longer sitting back, silently allowing you Liberals to have the only voice. Doesn't feel good, does it?

Chris

2020-07-08 01:25:32 UTC

Post by l***@gmail.com
Like I said, when you all stop the Trump-bashing, then I will take your request to remove political posts seriously. We Conservatives are no longer sitting back, silently allowing you Liberals to have the only voice. Doesn't feel good, does it?
Chris

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?

And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

h***@aol.com

2020-07-08 12:11:51 UTC

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?
And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

To your first point: Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office. I'm speaking of the silent majority- the voting public. Not the weak RINO's in Congress. We have plenty of useless Republicans in Congress. No spine at all. They would save their precious pocketbooks rather than their own Country!

And furthermore, the popular vote has NOTHING to do with getting elected. That's not how our system works. If we went by popular vote ONLY, then maybe 4 or 5 States would elect the President every time. How would the voices of the other 45/46 States be heard? Perhaps you should learn about the reason for the Electoral College. If the Electoral College system were ever abolished, you can bet your bottom dollar that Republican voters would FLOOD those 4/5 States to be heard. However, it is a pipedream to assume that that would ever happen. There is a huge process to change the Constitution! It's not going to be done by one party having power in all 3 branches of Government. Not unless they declare themselves Totalitarians or Dictators.

Now to your second point: President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong.

Now, Conservatives can't even rely on Fox News for support of the President. It has been taken over by the son of the former CEO, who slants left. They now have as many leftists on their channel as supporters on the right. You should watch it now and again. You'd be SO "proud"!

The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already. Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly. You can pull up YouTube or Facebook Watch on any day of the week and see students on campuses who don't even know the most basic information about America's history. I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it?

I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew up in. I'm hard-pressed to find any remnants left of it on the news today. It makes me so sad and afraid for our future.

Chris

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-08 13:16:09 UTC

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?
And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

To your first point: Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office. I'm speaking of the silent majority- the voting public. Not the weak RINO's in Congress. We have plenty of useless Republicans in Congress. No spine at all. They would save their precious pocketbooks rather than their own Country!
And furthermore, the popular vote has NOTHING to do with getting elected. That's not how our system works. If we went by popular vote ONLY, then maybe 4 or 5 States would elect the President every time. How would the voices of the other 45/46 States be heard? Perhaps you should learn about the reason for the Electoral College. If the Electoral College system were ever abolished, you can bet your bottom dollar that Republican voters would FLOOD those 4/5 States to be heard. However, it is a pipedream to assume that that would ever happen. There is a huge process to change the Constitution! It's not going to be done by one party having power in all 3 branches of Government. Not unless they declare themselves Totalitarians or Dictators.
Now to your second point: President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong.
Now, Conservatives can't even rely on Fox News for support of the President. It has been taken over by the son of the former CEO, who slants left. They now have as many leftists on their channel as supporters on the right. You should watch it now and again. You'd be SO "proud"!
The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already. Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly. You can pull up YouTube or Facebook Watch on any day of the week and see students on campuses who don't even know the most basic information about America's history. I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it?
I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my >son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew >up in. I'm hard-pressed to find any remnants left of it on the news today. It >makes me so sad and afraid for our future.
Chris

I find the most frightening aspect of this entire tirade is that she was allowed to produce offspring.....

Annie

h***@aol.com

2020-07-08 14:34:28 UTC

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?
And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

To your first point: Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office. I'm speaking of the silent majority- the voting public. Not the weak RINO's in Congress. We have plenty of useless Republicans in Congress. No spine at all. They would save their precious pocketbooks rather than their own Country!
And furthermore, the popular vote has NOTHING to do with getting elected. That's not how our system works. If we went by popular vote ONLY, then maybe 4 or 5 States would elect the President every time. How would the voices of the other 45/46 States be heard? Perhaps you should learn about the reason for the Electoral College. If the Electoral College system were ever abolished, you can bet your bottom dollar that Republican voters would FLOOD those 4/5 States to be heard. However, it is a pipedream to assume that that would ever happen. There is a huge process to change the Constitution! It's not going to be done by one party having power in all 3 branches of Government. Not unless they declare themselves Totalitarians or Dictators.
Now to your second point: President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong.
Now, Conservatives can't even rely on Fox News for support of the President. It has been taken over by the son of the former CEO, who slants left. They now have as many leftists on their channel as supporters on the right. You should watch it now and again. You'd be SO "proud"!
The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already. Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly. You can pull up YouTube or Facebook Watch on any day of the week and see students on campuses who don't even know the most basic information about America's history. I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it?
I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my >son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew >up in. I'm hard-pressed to find any remnants left of it on the news today. It >makes me so sad and afraid for our future.
Chris

I find the most frightening aspect of this entire tirade is that she was allowed to produce offspring.....
Annie

Allowed? Now we need permission to have children? Sounds like you are already living in the Communist world, Annie. Hope you enjoy losing all your freedoms. I'll fight for mine, thank you.

Chris

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-08 15:01:07 UTC

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?
And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

To your first point: Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office. I'm speaking of the silent majority- the voting public. Not the weak RINO's in Congress. We have plenty of useless Republicans in Congress. No spine at all. They would save their precious pocketbooks rather than their own Country!
And furthermore, the popular vote has NOTHING to do with getting elected. That's not how our system works. If we went by popular vote ONLY, then maybe 4 or 5 States would elect the President every time. How would the voices of the other 45/46 States be heard? Perhaps you should learn about the reason for the Electoral College. If the Electoral College system were ever abolished, you can bet your bottom dollar that Republican voters would FLOOD those 4/5 States to be heard. However, it is a pipedream to assume that that would ever happen. There is a huge process to change the Constitution! It's not going to be done by one party having power in all 3 branches of Government. Not unless they declare themselves Totalitarians or Dictators.
Now to your second point: President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong.
Now, Conservatives can't even rely on Fox News for support of the President. It has been taken over by the son of the former CEO, who slants left. They now have as many leftists on their channel as supporters on the right. You should watch it now and again. You'd be SO "proud"!
The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already. Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly. You can pull up YouTube or Facebook Watch on any day of the week and see students on campuses who don't even know the most basic information about America's history. I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it?
I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my >son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew >up in. I'm hard-pressed to find any remnants left of it on the news today. It >makes me so sad and afraid for our future.
Chris

I find the most frightening aspect of this entire tirade is that she was allowed to produce offspring.....
Annie

Allowed? Now we need permission to have children? Sounds like you are already living in the Communist world, Annie. Hope you enjoy losing all your freedoms. I'll fight for mine, thank you.
Chris

https://biologydictionary.net/natural-selection/

Jim UK

2020-07-08 17:01:22 UTC

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?
And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

To your first point: Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office. I'm speaking of the silent majority- the voting public. Not the weak RINO's in Congress. We have plenty of useless Republicans in Congress. No spine at all. They would save their precious pocketbooks rather than their own Country!
And furthermore, the popular vote has NOTHING to do with getting elected. That's not how our system works. If we went by popular vote ONLY, then maybe 4 or 5 States would elect the President every time. How would the voices of the other 45/46 States be heard? Perhaps you should learn about the reason for the Electoral College. If the Electoral College system were ever abolished, you can bet your bottom dollar that Republican voters would FLOOD those 4/5 States to be heard. However, it is a pipedream to assume that that would ever happen. There is a huge process to change the Constitution! It's not going to be done by one party having power in all 3 branches of Government. Not unless they declare themselves Totalitarians or Dictators.
Now to your second point: President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong.
Now, Conservatives can't even rely on Fox News for support of the President. It has been taken over by the son of the former CEO, who slants left. They now have as many leftists on their channel as supporters on the right. You should watch it now and again. You'd be SO "proud"!
The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already. Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly. You can pull up YouTube or Facebook Watch on any day of the week and see students on campuses who don't even know the most basic information about America's history. I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it?
I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my >son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew >up in. I'm hard-pressed to find any remnants left of it on the news today. It >makes me so sad and afraid for our future.
Chris

I find the most frightening aspect of this entire tirade is that she was allowed to produce offspring.....
Annie

Allowed? Now we need permission to have children? Sounds like you are already living in the Communist world, Annie. Hope you enjoy losing all your freedoms. I'll fight for mine, thank you.
Chris

Chris, do you own a gun and live in a trailer park?

h***@aol.com

2020-07-08 20:33:57 UTC

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?
And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

To your first point: Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office. I'm speaking of the silent majority- the voting public. Not the weak RINO's in Congress. We have plenty of useless Republicans in Congress. No spine at all. They would save their precious pocketbooks rather than their own Country!
And furthermore, the popular vote has NOTHING to do with getting elected. That's not how our system works. If we went by popular vote ONLY, then maybe 4 or 5 States would elect the President every time. How would the voices of the other 45/46 States be heard? Perhaps you should learn about the reason for the Electoral College. If the Electoral College system were ever abolished, you can bet your bottom dollar that Republican voters would FLOOD those 4/5 States to be heard. However, it is a pipedream to assume that that would ever happen. There is a huge process to change the Constitution! It's not going to be done by one party having power in all 3 branches of Government. Not unless they declare themselves Totalitarians or Dictators.
Now to your second point: President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong.
Now, Conservatives can't even rely on Fox News for support of the President. It has been taken over by the son of the former CEO, who slants left. They now have as many leftists on their channel as supporters on the right. You should watch it now and again. You'd be SO "proud"!
The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already. Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly. You can pull up YouTube or Facebook Watch on any day of the week and see students on campuses who don't even know the most basic information about America's history. I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it?
I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my >son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew >up in. I'm hard-pressed to find any remnants left of it on the news today. It >makes me so sad and afraid for our future.
Chris

I find the most frightening aspect of this entire tirade is that she was allowed to produce offspring.....
Annie

Allowed? Now we need permission to have children? Sounds like you are already living in the Communist world, Annie. Hope you enjoy losing all your freedoms. I'll fight for mine, thank you.
Chris

Chris, do you own a gun and live in a trailer park?

No, I do not...on both counts. I live in my own (brick) home, all paid for, in Upstate NY (North of Albany) and do not own a gun. I also have all of my teeth and dress very nicely. I speak correct English and have a degree from a local college. I work to support myself and do NOT need to, nor WANT to rely on the government. And there are millions more just like me in this Conservative party. Kind of blows the stereotype all to hell, doesn't it?

Chris

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-09 00:15:31 UTC

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?
And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

To your first point: Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office. I'm speaking of the silent majority- the voting public. Not the weak RINO's in Congress. We have plenty of useless Republicans in Congress. No spine at all. They would save their precious pocketbooks rather than their own Country!
And furthermore, the popular vote has NOTHING to do with getting elected. That's not how our system works. If we went by popular vote ONLY, then maybe 4 or 5 States would elect the President every time. How would the voices of the other 45/46 States be heard? Perhaps you should learn about the reason for the Electoral College. If the Electoral College system were ever abolished, you can bet your bottom dollar that Republican voters would FLOOD those 4/5 States to be heard. However, it is a pipedream to assume that that would ever happen. There is a huge process to change the Constitution! It's not going to be done by one party having power in all 3 branches of Government. Not unless they declare themselves Totalitarians or Dictators.
Now to your second point: President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong.
Now, Conservatives can't even rely on Fox News for support of the President. It has been taken over by the son of the former CEO, who slants left. They now have as many leftists on their channel as supporters on the right. You should watch it now and again. You'd be SO "proud"!
The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already. Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly. You can pull up YouTube or Facebook Watch on any day of the week and see students on campuses who don't even know the most basic information about America's history. I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it?
I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my >son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew >up in. I'm hard-pressed to find any remnants left of it on the news today. It >makes me so sad and afraid for our future.
Chris

I find the most frightening aspect of this entire tirade is that she was allowed to produce offspring.....
Annie

Allowed? Now we need permission to have children? Sounds like you are already living in the Communist world, Annie. Hope you enjoy losing all your freedoms. I'll fight for mine, thank you.
Chris

Chris, do you own a gun and live in a trailer park?

Chris,

Allow me to disabuse you of this notion: You do not 'blow the stereotype all to hell'.

Let me recap some of your greatest hits right from this thread.....

1. "CNN celebrating America" is NOT an oxymoron. I'm not talking politics I'm talking semantics.

YOU WROTE
2. "Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office..."
***************************************************************

Since 1960 there have been 7 Republican Presidents: Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, G.H.W.Bush, G.W.Bush, trump.

During that same time period there have been only 5 Democratic Presidents: Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton, Obama.

So tell us again how the Republicans have 'stayed silent for years.'

YOU WROTE
3. "President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong."
***********************************************

Well, Mrs. Marshall McLuhan, you might need to re-examine your theories on media......

YOU WROTE
4. "The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already"
***************************************************

Imma need you to cite sources on this. Where are you getting your information from? ( Crazy MAGA indoctrination theory doesn't count. )

YOU WROTE
5. " Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly."
*******************************************************

What, exactly, are these ^issues^ you are talking about? Black Lives Matter? Because that's what the protests have been about. What do we need to "correctly teach" about the BLM movement? Please enlighten us on the history of institutionalized racism in America and how it has been "mistaught" for "the last two generations"

YOU WROTE
6. " I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it? "
*********************************************************

And THIS is EXACTLY how trump got elected. His base largely consists of uneducated people.....people who don't read, who don't watch anything other than FOX news (if that), who have opinions informed only by MAGA propaganda

YOU WROTE
7. "I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew up in."
*****************************************************************

How old are you? Were you alive in the 50s and 60s? If not, surely you are aware of those times.....

the outright discrimination of people of color, particularly in the south; the Kennedy's - John, then Robert, assassinated. Martin Luther King Jr assassinated. The Viet Nam war. 1970s: The shameful treatment of the returning Viet Nam vets. Nixon casting a dark shadow on the presidency with Watergate. Continued discrimination against people of color. Discrimination against LGBT. 1980's: The nuclear arms race. AIDS and all the lives lost. The stock market crash of 1987. Continued discrimination against people of color and the LGBT community. The rise of homelessness particularly amongst Viet Nam vets. The rise of drug abuse and opioid addiction.

I don't know where YOU grew up, Chris, and full disclosure: I was lucky to grow up in a fairly well-to-do situation so much of my childhood ^was^ amazing, but I was also very aware of current events and social justice issues. It was not AMAZING for everyone growing up in America, that I knew.

Never has America been ^amazing ^ for everyone. And part of being an American is continually working to lift everyone up. Everyone.

That's what I was taught growing up (by my REPUBLICAN parents, I'll have you know) and it has always informed my choices and shaped my political views.

But working for equality and social justice no longer seems important to the Republican party, or for what passes for the Republican party these days.

YOU WROTE
8. "Of course, many people are aware that George Soros (a self-proclaimed Russian Communist) is pulling all the strings in the Democrat Party. He needs an incompetent "fool" to be able to control their every move. I don't believe Joe Biden is a "fool", but someone is allowing him to fill that role. So, in summary, it's going to take someone who is of sound mind to beat Donald J. Trump. Biden is not. "
**********************************************************

MAGA conspiracy theories do not make for the strongest argument.....just something to think about. And when you bring in George Soros you ^really^ fit the stereotype. Like a glove, as they say.

YOU WROTE
9. "....I've heard from plenty of folks in the UK who WISH they had a President like Trump."
***********************************************************

Newsflash: The UK does not have a President; they have a Monarchy. Surprised you didn't know this as it has been this way since the 9th century. But, you know, reading takes so much TIME...why not just let trumpology tell you what to think, right?

YOU WROTE
10. "Unless, of course, you are a Globalist who supports One World Order. Then I would understand your position."
*************************************************************

Would you though? Would you really?

Quick, Chris, define "Globalism"....I'll wait.

And you bring it on home with:
"Sounds like you are already living in the Communist world, Annie."

For extra bonus points, define "Communism".....Stalin, Lenin, Karl Marx.... ringing any bells there? (hint: NOT the names of Groucho's brothers)

In summary: your feeble attempts to defend your position along with your crazy MAGA propaganda makes you the perfect stereotypical trumpie.

What I wrote before still stands. You, and every other trump supporter - and yes I know full well who they are here - disgust me.

Whether trump wins or loses next election we will never fully recover, as a nation, from the light being shown on all of you racist, self-centered, uneducated, morally bankrupt "fellow Americans". I am ashamed of you all.
I am ashamed that our country gave rise to you. I am ashamed that trump gave you a platform. I am ashamed that historians for years to come will struggle to characterize these dark days of our democracy and I pray that they realize some of us tried to stand tall. I am angry that my Grandfather, Dad, and now my Nephew - all proud Navy men - fought/fight to defend your rights because you all have NO FUCKING CLUE what it means to be a true American.

Well, glad I got that off my chest. I feel so much better having blown this off.

Thank you all for attending my TED Talk,
Annie

h***@aol.com

2020-07-09 00:40:33 UTC

I've already said my piece, but I do have a question.
SINCE WHEN have ReTrumplicans kept their mouths shut about how WONDERFUL things supposedly are since the incompetent tool who lost the popular vote managed to get into the White House?
And if you think I'm treating the poor, spoiled, whiny little toddler-in-chief any worse than Obama was treated, build yourself a bridge.

To your first point: Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office. I'm speaking of the silent majority- the voting public. Not the weak RINO's in Congress. We have plenty of useless Republicans in Congress. No spine at all. They would save their precious pocketbooks rather than their own Country!
And furthermore, the popular vote has NOTHING to do with getting elected. That's not how our system works. If we went by popular vote ONLY, then maybe 4 or 5 States would elect the President every time. How would the voices of the other 45/46 States be heard? Perhaps you should learn about the reason for the Electoral College. If the Electoral College system were ever abolished, you can bet your bottom dollar that Republican voters would FLOOD those 4/5 States to be heard. However, it is a pipedream to assume that that would ever happen. There is a huge process to change the Constitution! It's not going to be done by one party having power in all 3 branches of Government. Not unless they declare themselves Totalitarians or Dictators.
Now to your second point: President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong.
Now, Conservatives can't even rely on Fox News for support of the President. It has been taken over by the son of the former CEO, who slants left. They now have as many leftists on their channel as supporters on the right. You should watch it now and again. You'd be SO "proud"!
The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already. Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly. You can pull up YouTube or Facebook Watch on any day of the week and see students on campuses who don't even know the most basic information about America's history. I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it?
I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my >son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew >up in. I'm hard-pressed to find any remnants left of it on the news today. It >makes me so sad and afraid for our future.
Chris

I find the most frightening aspect of this entire tirade is that she was allowed to produce offspring.....
Annie

Allowed? Now we need permission to have children? Sounds like you are already living in the Communist world, Annie. Hope you enjoy losing all your freedoms. I'll fight for mine, thank you.
Chris

Chris, do you own a gun and live in a trailer park?

Chris,
Allow me to disabuse you of this notion: You do not 'blow the stereotype all to hell'.
Let me recap some of your greatest hits right from this thread.....
1. "CNN celebrating America" is NOT an oxymoron. I'm not talking politics I'm talking semantics.
YOU WROTE
2. "Republicans have kept their mouths shut for years UNTIL President Trump was in office..."
***************************************************************
Since 1960 there have been 7 Republican Presidents: Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, G.H.W.Bush, G.W.Bush, trump.
During that same time period there have been only 5 Democratic Presidents: Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton, Obama.
So tell us again how the Republicans have 'stayed silent for years.'
YOU WROTE
3. "President Obama had the entire media on his side! That includes TV AND printed media. Every single news outlet EXCEPT Fox News was fawning over him for the entire time he was in office. He was the next coming of Christ. You call that treated poorly? If you listen to, or read, any one of those news outlets, you got only one-sided coverage of his administration. He could do no wrong."
***********************************************
Well, Mrs. Marshall McLuhan, you might need to re-examine your theories on media......
YOU WROTE
4. "The left has taken over the education system - from Day Care all the way up to the major Universities. Our children have been indoctrinated into the propaganda the left spews for at least two generations already"
***************************************************
Imma need you to cite sources on this. Where are you getting your information from? ( Crazy MAGA indoctrination theory doesn't count. )
YOU WROTE
5. " Why do you think there is so much hatred on our streets now? These kids, who haven't a clue, are out there marching for issues about which they haven't even been taught correctly."
*******************************************************
What, exactly, are these ^issues^ you are talking about? Black Lives Matter? Because that's what the protests have been about. What do we need to "correctly teach" about the BLM movement? Please enlighten us on the history of institutionalized racism in America and how it has been "mistaught" for "the last two generations"
YOU WROTE
6. " I heard some young person interviewed the other day who was asked who George Washington was. The totally uninformed, mal-educated person responded that George Washington was the "second President, after Lincoln". Another was asked when the Declaration of Independence was signed. His response? 1984! Yet another: "Who did we declare our independence FROM?" Answer: "Virginia!" Only ONE out of 5 people who were asked, could even sing the correct words to our National Anthem! How do they hate a country when they don't even know the most basic truths and history surrounding it? "
*********************************************************
And THIS is EXACTLY how trump got elected. His base largely consists of uneducated people.....people who don't read, who don't watch anything other than FOX news (if that), who have opinions informed only by MAGA propaganda
YOU WROTE
7. "I shake my head and pray that America can survive - AS FOUNDED - so that my son and his family can live in the same AMAZING and EXCEPTIONAL country I grew up in."
*****************************************************************
How old are you? Were you alive in the 50s and 60s? If not, surely you are aware of those times.....
the outright discrimination of people of color, particularly in the south; the Kennedy's - John, then Robert, assassinated. Martin Luther King Jr assassinated. The Viet Nam war. 1970s: The shameful treatment of the returning Viet Nam vets. Nixon casting a dark shadow on the presidency with Watergate. Continued discrimination against people of color. Discrimination against LGBT. 1980's: The nuclear arms race. AIDS and all the lives lost. The stock market crash of 1987. Continued discrimination against people of color and the LGBT community. The rise of homelessness particularly amongst Viet Nam vets. The rise of drug abuse and opioid addiction.
I don't know where YOU grew up, Chris, and full disclosure: I was lucky to grow up in a fairly well-to-do situation so much of my childhood ^was^ amazing, but I was also very aware of current events and social justice issues. It was not AMAZING for everyone growing up in America, that I knew.
Never has America been ^amazing ^ for everyone. And part of being an American is continually working to lift everyone up. Everyone.
That's what I was taught growing up (by my REPUBLICAN parents, I'll have you know) and it has always informed my choices and shaped my political views.
But working for equality and social justice no longer seems important to the Republican party, or for what passes for the Republican party these days.
YOU WROTE
8. "Of course, many people are aware that George Soros (a self-proclaimed Russian Communist) is pulling all the strings in the Democrat Party. He needs an incompetent "fool" to be able to control their every move. I don't believe Joe Biden is a "fool", but someone is allowing him to fill that role. So, in summary, it's going to take someone who is of sound mind to beat Donald J. Trump. Biden is not. "
**********************************************************
MAGA conspiracy theories do not make for the strongest argument.....just something to think about. And when you bring in George Soros you ^really^ fit the stereotype. Like a glove, as they say.
YOU WROTE
9. "....I've heard from plenty of folks in the UK who WISH they had a President like Trump."
***********************************************************
Newsflash: The UK does not have a President; they have a Monarchy. Surprised you didn't know this as it has been this way since the 9th century. But, you know, reading takes so much TIME...why not just let trumpology tell you what to think, right?
YOU WROTE
10. "Unless, of course, you are a Globalist who supports One World Order. Then I would understand your position."
*************************************************************
Would you though? Would you really?
Quick, Chris, define "Globalism"....I'll wait.
"Sounds like you are already living in the Communist world, Annie."
For extra bonus points, define "Communism".....Stalin, Lenin, Karl Marx.... ringing any bells there? (hint: NOT the names of Groucho's brothers)
In summary: your feeble attempts to defend your position along with your crazy MAGA propaganda makes you the perfect stereotypical trumpie.
What I wrote before still stands. You, and every other trump supporter - and yes I know full well who they are here - disgust me.
Whether trump wins or loses next election we will never fully recover, as a nation, from the light being shown on all of you racist, self-centered, uneducated, morally bankrupt "fellow Americans". I am ashamed of you all.
I am ashamed that our country gave rise to you. I am ashamed that trump gave you a platform. I am ashamed that historians for years to come will struggle to characterize these dark days of our democracy and I pray that they realize some of us tried to stand tall. I am angry that my Grandfather, Dad, and now my Nephew - all proud Navy men - fought/fight to defend your rights because you all have NO FUCKING CLUE what it means to be a true American.
Well, glad I got that off my chest. I feel so much better having blown this off.
Thank you all for attending my TED Talk,
Annie

I'm well aware that nothing I say will change your mind. And vice-versa regarding anything you say to me. Do enjoy your sad/angry life.

Chris

Jim UK

2020-07-08 11:21:18 UTC

Trump is going to lose big-time.

h***@aol.com

2020-07-08 12:41:01 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Trump is going to lose big-time.

Now to you, Jim UK: We'll see. You think that because you watch CNN with all the negative press about our President that everyone agrees with that garbage? This is a HUGE country, and it has MANY people who are never represented on CNN's National news outlets. We are a shut-out (of the news) MAJORITY! The Democrats candidate this year is Joe Biden. There are serious questions whether he could be diagnosed with dementia. THIS is who the Democrats want to put up as their candidate! The poor man! Someone should have pity on him and get him treatment. The Democrats are SO desperate to get Trump out of office that they will allow this taken-advantage-of human being to be paraded about (when they allow him to come out of his basement in Delaware to speak) using a pre-written statement created for his supporters. (There is NO WAY that this man, in HIS CONDITION is capable of writing these statements himself!) If he goes off-script, he is lost. He stumbles and fumbles his way through a totally incoherent babbling of mush. It's sad that out of 330,000,000 people in our country, HE is the one they choose to run against Trump. Of course, many people are aware that George Soros (a self-proclaimed Russian Communist) is pulling all the strings in the Democrat Party. He needs an incompetent "fool" to be able to control their every move. I don't believe Joe Biden is a "fool", but someone is allowing him to fill that role. So, in summary, it's going to take someone who is of sound mind to beat Donald J. Trump. Biden is not.

So anyway, Jim UK - why do you care? You have no stake in what happens in America. I've heard from plenty of folks in the UK who WISH they had a President like Trump. Seems not everyone in your own backyard agrees with you. Unless, of course, you are a Globalist who supports One World Order. Then I would understand your position.

Chris

dcsharon

2020-07-08 15:21:18 UTC

Thanks for hijacking my happy little string about July 4th.

If you're going to go on a OT Rant, start your own topic (so I can block it)

'k? Thanks

(DC) Sharon

Jim UK

2020-07-08 16:54:23 UTC

Post by dcsharon
Thanks for hijacking my happy little string about July 4th.
If you're going to go on a OT Rant, start your own topic (so I can block it)
'k? Thanks
(DC) Sharon

I posted my opinion, I didn't hijack your anything-but-happy string. Jeezus, you are quite ridiculous.

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-08 19:17:58 UTC

Post by dcsharon
Thanks for hijacking my happy little string about July 4th.
If you're going to go on a OT Rant, start your own topic (so I can block it)
'k? Thanks
(DC) Sharon

Hi Sharon,

I apologize for my part in jumping into the political fray. Even though I am aware that it does no good, sometimes I engage with a Trumpie. And you are correct; this is not the place for it.

I think history will show this July 4th took place during a watershed period for our country. In the midst of crisis - the pandemic, the extreme divisiveness in our two-party system, the lack of leadership - both political and moral - and the mainstream acceptance of hatred and racism - this is the time from which we will either recover our democracy, or become irrevocably changed from the vision our founding fathers set forth for us. And right now there is no clear indication which direction we are headed. Which is disheartening and frightening. This 4th only served to confront that.

so even if I hadn't worked 16 hours in full PPE, it still would not have been a happy July 4th.

All that said, I am sorry for my part in contributing to the political here.

My husband, who is a far kinder person than me, constantly reminds me that as far as the Trumpies are concerned:

"Blessed are the morons, for they shall never be woke"

meaning it is a waste of time to engage in discourse.

Good advice, I think.

Annie

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-08 19:21:23 UTC

Post by dcsharon
Thanks for hijacking my happy little string about July 4th.
If you're going to go on a OT Rant, start your own topic (so I can block it)
'k? Thanks
(DC) Sharon

Hi Sharon,
I apologize for my part in jumping into the political fray. Even though I am aware that it does no good, sometimes I engage with a Trumpie. And you are correct; this is not the place for it.
I think history will show this July 4th took place during a watershed period for our country. In the midst of crisis - the pandemic, the extreme divisiveness in our two-party system, the lack of leadership - both political and moral - and the mainstream acceptance of hatred and racism - this is the time from which we will either recover our democracy, or become irrevocably changed from the vision our founding fathers set forth for us. And right now there is no clear indication which direction we are headed. Which is disheartening and frightening. This 4th only served to confront that.
so even if I hadn't worked 16 hours in full PPE, it still would not have been a happy July 4th.
All that said, I am sorry for my part in contributing to the political here.
"Blessed are the morons, for they shall never be woke"
meaning it is a waste of time to engage in discourse.
Good advice, I think.
Annie

Adding: as I read back over this thread I realize I was the first one to poke the beast. So I guess I started it. : (

sorry guys!

Annie

Jim UK

2020-07-08 19:26:06 UTC

You said what you wanted to on an almost dead fan page for a singer way past his prime. Free speech. Carry on.

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-08 22:05:23 UTC

Post by Jim UK
You said what you wanted to on an almost dead fan page for a singer way past his prime. Free speech. Carry on.

Wait wait wait!!!! Jim!!!!

I take extreme, outraged, incredulous, and disbelieving offense at your suggestion that Mr M is "way past his prime".

Nuh-uh! No way! He's not old YOU'RE OLD! I know you are but what am I?????

Mr M is still performing with the best of them. Seriously, Jim, seeing him live is awesome.

And, although some of his recent work is not to everyone's liking, you can't argue that his recent stuff remains beautifully arranged and his voice is still very good.

In summary, NOBODY PUTS BARRY IN THE CORNER.

Warmest regards,

Annie

2020-07-09 02:46:41 UTC

Post by Jim UK
You said what you wanted to on an almost dead fan page for a singer way past his prime. Free speech. Carry on.

Wait wait wait!!!! Jim!!!!
I take extreme, outraged, incredulous, and disbelieving offense at your suggestion that Mr M is "way past his prime".
Nuh-uh! No way! He's not old YOU'RE OLD! I know you are but what am I?????
Mr M is still performing with the best of them. Seriously, Jim, seeing him live is awesome.
And, although some of his recent work is not to everyone's liking, you can't argue that his recent stuff remains beautifully arranged and his voice is still very good.
In summary, NOBODY PUTS BARRY IN THE CORNER.
Warmest regards,
Annie

Annie...

I'd suggest you can quit wasting your time (and your computer's electrons... LOL) but it's entirely up to you.

At least back in the days of me arguing with Scooter (and I am WAY glad those days are over) there was a coherent and (usually) logical argument on both sides. But not with this one. I don't know if it's the covfefe, the hydroxychloroquin, or just not enough bleach, but the delusion is strong. Then again maybe she's upset that the pussygrabber-in-chief hasn't gotten around to her yet. Who knows?

Anyway. For all the ranting and raving, she has yet to prove a single "point" that she's tried to make, and I'm not wasting my time on it any more.

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-09 03:27:40 UTC

Post by Jim UK
You said what you wanted to on an almost dead fan page for a singer way past his prime. Free speech. Carry on.

Wait wait wait!!!! Jim!!!!
I take extreme, outraged, incredulous, and disbelieving offense at your suggestion that Mr M is "way past his prime".
Nuh-uh! No way! He's not old YOU'RE OLD! I know you are but what am I?????
Mr M is still performing with the best of them. Seriously, Jim, seeing him live is awesome.
And, although some of his recent work is not to everyone's liking, you can't argue that his recent stuff remains beautifully arranged and his voice is still very good.
In summary, NOBODY PUTS BARRY IN THE CORNER.
Warmest regards,
Annie

Annie...
I'd suggest you can quit wasting your time (and your computer's electrons... LOL) but it's entirely up to you.
At least back in the days of me arguing with Scooter (and I am WAY glad those days are over) there was a coherent and (usually) logical argument on both sides. But not with this one. I don't know if it's the covfefe, the hydroxychloroquin, or just not enough bleach, but the delusion is strong. Then again maybe she's upset that the pussygrabber-in-chief hasn't gotten around to her yet. Who knows?
Anyway. For all the ranting and raving, she has yet to prove a single "point" that she's tried to make, and I'm not wasting my time on it any more.

You are right, D. No rabid trumpie can lay out a rational argument for their position.

And as far as I can tell, the only rational explanation for supporting trump would be "I am a racist, entitled asshole who doesn't give a damn about my fellow man"

I'd almost have to respect their honesty if any of them had the courage to admit that.

Covfefe,
Annie : )

Scooter

2020-07-09 14:07:14 UTC

Post by D
At least back in the days of me arguing with Scooter (and I
am WAY glad those days are over) there was a coherent and
(usually) logical argument on both sides.

Those were different times here on the old ng, Dave.

Here's the thing... In the current climate, there is no middle
ground. Everything is black or white - no gray. You're
either liberal or conservative. Almost everyone who posts
here is liberal. So I try to avoid confrontations with people
I'll never convince, and who'll never convince me. Much less
stress when some people probably think of me as a knuckle-
dragging, snaggle-toothed deplorable with an IQ of 3 who must
be canceled. ;^)

Post by D
...an almost dead fan page for a singer way past his prime.

Agree.

Scooter (posting here for over 20 years)

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-10 00:23:53 UTC

Post by D
At least back in the days of me arguing with Scooter (and I
am WAY glad those days are over) there was a coherent and
(usually) logical argument on both sides.

Those were different times here on the old ng, Dave.
Here's the thing... In the current climate, there is no middle
ground. Everything is black or white - no gray. You're
either liberal or conservative. Almost everyone who posts
here is liberal. So I try to avoid confrontations with people
I'll never convince, and who'll never convince me. Much less
stress when some people probably think of me as a knuckle-
dragging, snaggle-toothed deplorable with an IQ of 3 who must
be canceled. ;^)

No, Scooter. I don't think you have an IQ of 3. That would be too easy.

No. It is the fact that you seem to be a reasonably intelligent person yet still choose to support a racist leader that disgusts me as far as you are concerned.

Make no mistake, it is NOT a matter of Liberal v. Conservative points of view.

It is a matter of what is right, moral, and democratic v. what is hatred, selfishness, racist, and xenophobic.

Post by D
...an almost dead fan page for a singer way past his prime.

Agree.
Scooter (posting here for over 20 years)

So, Scooter, you have been a Manilow fan for 20+ years. Presumably you have enjoyed his music. Presumably he has added something to your life. If not for Barry Manilow you would not have met a lot of your friends; you've said that here.

You have a lot to thank him for.

AND YET you have no problem denigrating him now that he is "way past his prime"

WHERE is the Loyalty? Gratitude? Respect?

BTW: Is a 70+ year old woman who still calls herself "Scooter" way past her prime? Asking for a friend....

Yes, you disgust me and yes, I am ashamed to call you a fellow American.

Whatever.

Go back to your golf cart parades and YouTube puppy videos, Scooter.

In the end, the measure of our worth is what we did to make our society better and help our brothers and sisters. All of our brothers and sisters. Not just those whom we ^think^ have value.

Annie

Jim UK

2020-07-10 02:49:27 UTC

Hold on Annie. You have this the totally wrong way 'round.

Barry Manilow does not give a shit about his fans. We put dollars in his bank. It is a business for him.

You mention loyalty, gratitude and respect. Barry Manilow has no respect or loyalty to his fans. He has gratitude but only because we have put millions of dollars in his bank account!

Since the start of his career he has lied to us all every step of the way. Barry has a lot to thank US for, not the other way around.

For almost 50 years he has "played" the heterosexual because he said his career would have died. At every CSWY moment he said "This is my show fellas, ladies and girls only". He insisted on singing back to back with Brian D'Arcy and said "Of course we are not going to sing it face to face, that would be creepy". You think that shows and amount of "respect" to his fans? He has been totally disrespectful and insulting to his fans both straight and gay. Shame on him. He is a liar.

His autobiography was a pack of lies from start to finish.

He lied about his age right from the start of his career.

Over the years he has been really unkind to his fans. He admits he was not a nice person. Loyalty? Nope.

In concert, he keeps fans waiting for 30 minutes after the show is meant to start and the slow clapping begins. That has always been very disrespectful.

He goes on stage these days and does the equivalent of painting by numbers. Same old songs (maybe a new one now and again), same old chat, same old bullshit. It is almost like he phones the show in these days.

He has just recently said he does not enjoy performing on stage. In that case, just stop! More disrespect to the fans but Ker-ching, he'll still take your money.

He talked about the golden handcuffs and instead of recording "classic Manilow" he took the easiest route and released shitty albums that the fans didn't particularly like. Summer of '78, all the decade albums. I think he was lazy and couldn't be bothered. Phil Ramone said that Barry has the patience of a gnat. It shows. His albums used to be so wonderful. He would do the vocals, backing vocals, play the piano, arrange and produce them. Now he goes in, does his main vocal and let's other people do everything else. And expects and assumes we will enjoy the finished result.

I saw him at the O2 in 2011 and I have not bothered to go and see him since. Why? Because his voice was so fucked then and it is worse now. In 2011 he even asked the audience to sing the songs to him as he was unable to. I did not pay good money to sing to him! If he can't do the job, then stop. I did want to see him in Las Vegas but I really don't want to book flights, hotels and tickets on the off-chance that he may appear. He has cancelled so many concerts in recent years that paying to go to Vegas really is a huge gamble now I am not willing to take.

HIs voice is ruined but he still smokes (vapes). Give that up and his voice might get better.

Of course, to the crazy fans (who unfortunately still exist) he can do know wrong. He could literally fart on stage for an hour and they would still scream. They are still screaming at a gay man. Ah yes, maybe with that tiny glimmer of hope that they can still turn him straight and they will be "the one" he picks. It is SO pathetic.

And finally Annie, why do you continue to call him "Mr. M" instead of Barry? Also, your childlike obsession and fantasy over the gay man Garry Kief is not only disturbing, it is also weird and as creepy as fuck. Get some therapy or just stop. You are totally embarrassing yourself. Garry is not your gateway to Barry, OK.

Barry Manilow and the words loyalty and respect do not go hand in hand. He does not give a shit and he and the Manilow organisation will continue to lie because they always have. I saw through the bullshit and realised what a mug I had been. Many of the older fans feel like this now.

Manilow is a liar, simple as that.

Jim UK

2020-07-10 03:00:50 UTC

I am sorry for the typos in my last message. It is 4AM in England and I am tired and off to bed.

Jim UK

2020-07-10 03:03:07 UTC

Oops, sorry about the typos in my message. It is 4AM here and I am tired.

Post by Jim UK
Hold on Annie. You have this the totally wrong way 'round.
Barry Manilow does not give a shit about his fans. We put dollars in his bank. It is a business for him.
You mention loyalty, gratitude and respect. Barry Manilow has no respect or loyalty to his fans. He has gratitude but only because we have put millions of dollars in his bank account!
Since the start of his career he has lied to us all every step of the way. Barry has a lot to thank US for, not the other way around.
For almost 50 years he has "played" the heterosexual because he said his career would have died. At every CSWY moment he said "This is my show fellas, ladies and girls only". He insisted on singing back to back with Brian D'Arcy and said "Of course we are not going to sing it face to face, that would be creepy". You think that shows and amount of "respect" to his fans? He has been totally disrespectful and insulting to his fans both straight and gay. Shame on him. He is a liar.
His autobiography was a pack of lies from start to finish.
He lied about his age right from the start of his career.
Over the years he has been really unkind to his fans. He admits he was not a nice person. Loyalty? Nope.
In concert, he keeps fans waiting for 30 minutes after the show is meant to start and the slow clapping begins. That has always been very disrespectful.
He goes on stage these days and does the equivalent of painting by numbers. Same old songs (maybe a new one now and again), same old chat, same old bullshit. It is almost like he phones the show in these days.
He has just recently said he does not enjoy performing on stage. In that case, just stop! More disrespect to the fans but Ker-ching, he'll still take your money.
He talked about the golden handcuffs and instead of recording "classic Manilow" he took the easiest route and released shitty albums that the fans didn't particularly like. Summer of '78, all the decade albums. I think he was lazy and couldn't be bothered. Phil Ramone said that Barry has the patience of a gnat. It shows. His albums used to be so wonderful. He would do the vocals, backing vocals, play the piano, arrange and produce them. Now he goes in, does his main vocal and let's other people do everything else. And expects and assumes we will enjoy the finished result.
I saw him at the O2 in 2011 and I have not bothered to go and see him since. Why? Because his voice was so fucked then and it is worse now. In 2011 he even asked the audience to sing the songs to him as he was unable to. I did not pay good money to sing to him! If he can't do the job, then stop. I did want to see him in Las Vegas but I really don't want to book flights, hotels and tickets on the off-chance that he may appear. He has cancelled so many concerts in recent years that paying to go to Vegas really is a huge gamble now I am not willing to take.
HIs voice is ruined but he still smokes (vapes). Give that up and his voice might get better.
Of course, to the crazy fans (who unfortunately still exist) he can do know wrong. He could literally fart on stage for an hour and they would still scream. They are still screaming at a gay man. Ah yes, maybe with that tiny glimmer of hope that they can still turn him straight and they will be "the one" he picks. It is SO pathetic.
And finally Annie, why do you continue to call him "Mr. M" instead of Barry? Also, your childlike obsession and fantasy over the gay man Garry Kief is not only disturbing, it is also weird and as creepy as fuck. Get some therapy or just stop. You are totally embarrassing yourself. Garry is not your gateway to Barry, OK.
Barry Manilow and the words loyalty and respect do not go hand in hand. He does not give a shit and he and the Manilow organisation will continue to lie because they always have. I saw through the bullshit and realised what a mug I had been. Many of the older fans feel like this now.
Manilow is a liar, simple as that.

2020-07-10 03:41:49 UTC

Jim...

While I may not agree with everything in you post, I'd say I'm a good 98% there with you.

I've seen him in concert as recently as 2018 but that's my last one. There's been much discussion in here over the years about how Barry pretty much does only the hits because of the audiences he's drawing now. The hits are all they know or want. I don't disagree with you that it's annoying to the rest of us who wish the show would change; I think it's been pretty much the same for the last ten years at least, if not longer.

Don't get me started on those damn decade albums (or even worse, Dream Duets, a.k.a. the Nightmare Singalong.)

But ESPECIALLY...
And finally Annie, why do you continue to call him "Mr. M" instead of Barry? Also, your childlike obsession and fantasy over the gay man Garry Kief is not only disturbing, it is also weird and as creepy as fuck. Get some therapy or just stop. You are totally embarrassing yourself. Garry is not your gateway to Barry, OK.

DING DING DING!!! Not too long ago, I tried to point out the idiocy of this by matching her, post for post, substituting Debra Byrd for GCK. Somebody wasn't terribly happy about that. I should point out that I have zero interest in Ms. Byrd, but she was the first female I could think of who was associated with Barry. As long as I'm at it, I have zero interest in GCK, either. Now, Jonathan Frakes back in his days of playing Commander Riker? Maybe. ;-)

Jim UK

2020-07-10 18:00:46 UTC

Commander Riker never did it for me but I can see why you like him. I'm more into Ben Cohen and Russell Tovey.

I am so glad you agree about Annie's stupid obsession. I always want to read her Kief comments through the gaps in my fingers - very creepy.

Oh, I forgot about the dreadful Dream Duets album. I played it once and it is awful. One reason being that when people do duets, they will each do harmonies and the melody line. That was impossible on this album because the dead singers had only recorded their main vocal so there were no harmonies available. The album is disjointed, it sounds weird because of the age of the other recordings and it is a mess from start to finish. It is even worse than Summer of 78 and that is saying something.

As for the Decade albums, it was easy money for Barry Manilow. There was not a lot of thought and once again the vocals are tired and sound like they were dialled in. Some good songs but mainly filler.

Barry has been doing the Daybreak medley since 1992. Zzzzzzz. That's the last time he appeared at the Albert Hall. His songs are tired. I realise that a lot of the older fans have probably died by now and he is playing to people who want to hear just the hits. Wouldn't it be nice if he just did a few rare album tracks in each concert to break up the monotony of Mandy and Copa and CSWY.

Thank goodness I won't ever have to see him do Mandy again, duetting with himself with the original performance from the 70's on the screen behind him. He has been doing that for so many years when he is in the UK and I wish he would cut it.

I am so happy I still love his music from the 70's and 80's. I also think that Showstoppers from 1991 is his last great album. The production on that album is amazing.

Scooter

2020-07-10 19:16:17 UTC

Post by Jim UK
I also think that Showstoppers from 1991 is his last
great album. The production on that album is amazing.

Agreed. The "Overture of Overtures" is terrific. "2 AM
Paradise Cafe" is also genius with all those amazing musicians
and singers. Seems like those times have passed.

Scooter

2020-07-12 04:43:10 UTC

Post by Jim UK
I also think that Showstoppers from 1991 is his last
great album. The production on that album is amazing.

Agreed. The "Overture of Overtures" is terrific. "2 AM
Paradise Cafe" is also genius with all those amazing musicians
and singers. Seems like those times have passed.
Scooter

Days past, indeed. Paradise Cafe remains my absolute favorite Barry album. I still have my VHS of "The Making of 2:00 AM Paradise Cafe" because they never put it out on DVD. I should see if it still plays.

I think they tried to sell "Night Songs" as a kind of sequel, but... no. Although I'll admit I like "Night Songs II" a lot more than I thought I would.

2020-07-12 04:39:01 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Commander Riker never did it for me but I can see why you like him. I'm more into Ben Cohen and Russell Tovey.

Honestly, these days, I don't know that I'm "into" any one person specifically. Generally speaking, I like the bear-ish type. Then again, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around being called "daddy"... LOL

Post by Jim UK
I am so glad you agree about Annie's stupid obsession. I always want to read her Kief comments through the gaps in my fingers - very creepy.

I'm not commenting further, at least not for now. ;-)

Post by Jim UK
Oh, I forgot about the dreadful Dream Duets album. I played it once and it is awful. One reason being that when people do duets, they will each do harmonies and the melody line. That was impossible on this album because the dead singers had only recorded their main vocal so there were no harmonies available. The album is disjointed, it sounds weird because of the age of the other recordings and it is a mess from start to finish. It is even worse than Summer of 78 and that is saying something.

There's that... and (as I remember from my one time listening to it) his attempts at "interacting" with these dead artists, like they're actually there in the studio. Now THERE'S creepy for you. :-)

Post by Jim UK
As for the Decade albums, it was easy money for Barry Manilow. There was not a lot of thought and once again the vocals are tired and sound like they were dialled in. Some good songs but mainly filler.

True, I think he did those to keep Clive happy. And, possibly, to fulfill whatever might have been left of any Arista contracts before venturing off with his own distribution. Not to mention, with the exception of the 50's album, I know a lot of the originals and Barry's versions just don't do it for me. I think the best section of any of them was him going back and doing acoustic versions of his own songs, which (over here) ended up as bonus material on the 70's album.

Post by Jim UK
Barry has been doing the Daybreak medley since 1992. Zzzzzzz. That's the last time he appeared at the Albert Hall. His songs are tired. I realise that a lot of the older fans have probably died by now and he is playing to people who want to hear just the hits. Wouldn't it be nice if he just did a few rare album tracks in each concert to break up the monotony of Mandy and Copa and CSWY.
Thank goodness I won't ever have to see him do Mandy again, duetting with himself with the original performance from the 70's on the screen behind him. He has been doing that for so many years when he is in the UK and I wish he would cut it.

Thanks to some very wonderful people in this group, I had front-row seats for a concert in 2018. That's likely going to be the last time I see him, for a myriad of reasons. Mandy was still there, the exploding streamers during Its a Miracle at the end were still there... I swear it felt like the exact same show as ten years previous.

Going back to a previous post of yours in here... I remember going to one of his concerts during the CSWY days. The friend I went with had license plates that read MANILOW. She actually removed one and made me hold it up while he was picking the audience member of the night (maybe she thought I was taller and Barry would see it better, who knows?) I told her that if Barry picked it, then I (as plate holder) was gonna head for the stage instead. Not that I have any clue what they would have done at that point... :-)

Post by Jim UK
I am so happy I still love his music from the 70's and 80's. I also think that Showstoppers from 1991 is his last great album. The production on that album is amazing.

I would... with reservations... list Mayflower instead. The only thing keeping me from putting it on the list is the marketing plan at the time. That was back when they had various "special editions" to get certain bonus tracks. The US had a special edition specific to one chain store. The UK had its own edition with slightly different mixes, plus two bonus tracks. Japan had its own edition with bonus tracks that fife't match the others. And then there was a "tour exclusive" bonus disc that you could get ONLY by buying the whole album all over again AT ONE OF HIS CONCERTS.
Not to mention Arista released "Essential Manilow" almost right on top of it, which shoved Mayflower off into oblivion.

Brenda M

2020-07-15 06:13:08 UTC

I realize I am late to the discussion, but must agree with Jim. Barry is well past his prime and should have retired years ago.

For me, the realization came a few years ago when I attended a show and saw how heavily he had to rely on technological wizardry to fool the audience into thinking he could still sing. Honestly, that was the biggest turn-off for me. I wouldn’t have minded him croaking out a few songs half as much as I minded the fakery of it all. And worse, there are fans who still believe he sounds just like he did in the 70s! Wow! Could it be magic?

And then there was the fakery behind the platinums. Repaying the fans’ loyalty by demanding thousands of dollars in exchange for a plastic smile and hello in a very expensive photo was just beyond sad.

Barry (and by extension Garry) despises the fans. If we don’t buy, we don’t exist.

But I still listen to my CDs and remember when Barry could be genuinely kind. I have memories of a Manilow that have no resemblance to the shallow, crumbling shell of shiny surgery he’s become, mouthing along to his songs before throngs of screaming old women.

It’s good to remember the fun years. I’m grateful I got to have them. And I met some amazing people along the way, some of whom are still very dear friends. I am forever grateful for them and for the music.

Brenda

2020-07-10 03:23:10 UTC

Post by D
At least back in the days of me arguing with Scooter (and I
am WAY glad those days are over) there was a coherent and
(usually) logical argument on both sides.

Those were different times here on the old ng, Dave.
Here's the thing... In the current climate, there is no middle
ground. Everything is black or white - no gray. You're
either liberal or conservative. Almost everyone who posts
here is liberal. So I try to avoid confrontations with people
I'll never convince, and who'll never convince me. Much less
stress when some people probably think of me as a knuckle-
dragging, snaggle-toothed deplorable with an IQ of 3 who must
be canceled. ;^)

No, Scooter. I don't think you have an IQ of 3. That would be too easy.
No. It is the fact that you seem to be a reasonably intelligent person yet still choose to support a racist leader that disgusts me as far as you are concerned.
Make no mistake, it is NOT a matter of Liberal v. Conservative points of view.
It is a matter of what is right, moral, and democratic v. what is hatred, selfishness, racist, and xenophobic.

Post by D
...an almost dead fan page for a singer way past his prime.

Agree.
Scooter (posting here for over 20 years)

So, Scooter, you have been a Manilow fan for 20+ years. Presumably you have enjoyed his music. Presumably he has added something to your life. If not for Barry Manilow you would not have met a lot of your friends; you've said that here.
You have a lot to thank him for.
AND YET you have no problem denigrating him now that he is "way past his prime"
WHERE is the Loyalty? Gratitude? Respect?
BTW: Is a 70+ year old woman who still calls herself "Scooter" way past her prime? Asking for a friend....
Yes, you disgust me and yes, I am ashamed to call you a fellow American.
Whatever.
Go back to your golf cart parades and YouTube puppy videos, Scooter.
In the end, the measure of our worth is what we did to make our society better and help our brothers and sisters. All of our brothers and sisters. Not just those whom we ^think^ have value.
Annie

Two words, Annie... BACK OFF. You have ZERO standing to be attacking Scooter of all people. I deleted the rest of my original response because it wasn't helping my blood pressure any.

Is Barry past his prime? YES. Does he still put out good material? Sometimes. Each of us is at a different point in our fandoms and we sure as hell aren't always going to agree with you. To steal a rather famous phrase... your acceptance is neither desired nor required.

2020-07-10 03:26:40 UTC

Post by D
At least back in the days of me arguing with Scooter (and I
am WAY glad those days are over) there was a coherent and
(usually) logical argument on both sides.

Those were different times here on the old ng, Dave.
Here's the thing... In the current climate, there is no middle
ground. Everything is black or white - no gray. You're
either liberal or conservative. Almost everyone who posts
here is liberal. So I try to avoid confrontations with people
I'll never convince, and who'll never convince me. Much less
stress when some people probably think of me as a knuckle-
dragging, snaggle-toothed deplorable with an IQ of 3 who must
be canceled. ;^)

Post by D
...an almost dead fan page for a singer way past his prime.

Agree.
Scooter (posting here for over 20 years)

Scooter...

An IQ of 3? Nah, not you. 13 at least (LOL)

I reserve that kind of rating for women who continue to swoon and drool over gay men as if they stand even the most remote chance in hell of getting anywhere with them. ;-)

Jim UK

2020-07-10 03:34:31 UTC

Scooter, you are so right.

Jim UK

2020-07-10 03:10:26 UTC

Post by a***@gmail.com
Wait wait wait!!!! Jim!!!!
I take extreme, outraged, incredulous, and disbelieving offense at your suggestion that Mr M is "way past his prime".
Nuh-uh! No way! He's not old YOU'RE OLD! I know you are but what am I?????
Mr M is still performing with the best of them. Seriously, Jim, seeing him live is awesome.
And, although some of his recent work is not to everyone's liking, you can't argue that his recent stuff remains beautifully arranged and his voice is still very good.
In summary, NOBODY PUTS BARRY IN THE CORNER.
Warmest regards,
Annie

Annie, I have seen him so many times since 1980 that I have lost count. He is past his prime. You still think his voice is very good? He sounds like he has gargled broken glass.

He is old, I am getting on in years too. So? Seeing him live used to be awesome. Not these days. Same old, same old.

Yep, I am putting Barry in a corner. You are one of the fans who sees Barry like a God and thankfully I got over that crap years ago. It is time he gave up and retired gracefully.

marvin

2020-07-13 14:23:59 UTC

Hi Jim,
While I agree with you that Barry is predictable (a nice word for boring) in his concert fare, I honestly think that Barry performs his hit songs because that is what most of his audiences expect of him.
Barry may be past his prime to the youngsters who like hip hop, rap, heavy metal and electronic music which is contemporary, but you have to remember for those of us who love music with traditional romantic lyrics, a chorus with deep emotional interpretations of the songs, very few of the young singers today that are famous rarely measure up to what Barry performs in concert.
There is a very big difference today between what songwriters created back in the 1970s (and earlier eras) to what passes as good music today. I understand the appeal of the younger artists who perform good rhythm and dance songs, but many older fans like myself (I am 69) like what Barry and his generation do in their performances, so I think that Barry will continue to be a big draw wherever he many perform in Canada, the USA and Great Britain, once the pandemic is over.
I am a big fan of romantic songs and can never tire of hearing Barry perform "Weekend In New England", "Even Now", or other performers singing Barry's songs (which I saw last Saturday in Boca Raton, Florida by singer Mark Sanders who did an excellent selection of Barry's songs, including my favorite one of them all "If I Should Love Again"). Thanks, Marvin

crystal

2020-07-13 23:10:21 UTC

Post by dcsharon
Thanks for hijacking my happy little string about July 4th.
If you're going to go on a OT Rant, start your own topic (so I can block it)
'k? Thanks
(DC) Sharon

Hi Sharon,
I apologize for my part in jumping into the political fray. Even though I am aware that it does no good, sometimes I engage with a Trumpie. And you are correct; this is not the place for it.
I think history will show this July 4th took place during a watershed period for our country. In the midst of crisis - the pandemic, the extreme divisiveness in our two-party system, the lack of leadership - both political and moral - and the mainstream acceptance of hatred and racism - this is the time from which we will either recover our democracy, or become irrevocably changed from the vision our founding fathers set forth for us. And right now there is no clear indication which direction we are headed. Which is disheartening and frightening. This 4th only served to confront that.
so even if I hadn't worked 16 hours in full PPE, it still would not have been a happy July 4th.
All that said, I am sorry for my part in contributing to the political here.
"Blessed are the morons, for they shall never be woke"
meaning it is a waste of time to engage in discourse.
Good advice, I think.
Annie

Adding: as I read back over this thread I realize I was the first one to poke the beast. So I guess I started it. : (
sorry guys!
Annie

Uh Annie, Chris is the one who decided to make this into a political fight with her negative post about CNN; you merely decided to give it back to her.

Crystal

crystal

2020-07-13 23:08:44 UTC

Post by a***@gmail.com
"Blessed are the morons, for they shall never be woke"
meaning it is a waste of time to engage in discourse.
Good advice, I think.
Annie

Another helpful bit of advice to remember Annie is this; you're not the jackass whisperer.

Crystal

Jim UK

2020-07-08 17:00:24 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Trump is going to lose big-time.

Now to you, Jim UK: We'll see. You think that because you watch CNN with all the negative press about our President that everyone agrees with that garbage? This is a HUGE country, and it has MANY people who are never represented on CNN's National news outlets. We are a shut-out (of the news) MAJORITY! The Democrats candidate this year is Joe Biden. There are serious questions whether he could be diagnosed with dementia. THIS is who the Democrats want to put up as their candidate! The poor man! Someone should have pity on him and get him treatment. The Democrats are SO desperate to get Trump out of office that they will allow this taken-advantage-of human being to be paraded about (when they allow him to come out of his basement in Delaware to speak) using a pre-written statement created for his supporters. (There is NO WAY that this man, in HIS CONDITION is capable of writing these statements himself!) If he goes off-script, he is lost. He stumbles and fumbles his way through a totally incoherent babbling of mush. It's sad that out of 330,000,000 people in our country, HE is the one they choose to run against Trump. Of course, many people are aware that George Soros (a self-proclaimed Russian Communist) is pulling all the strings in the Democrat Party. He needs an incompetent "fool" to be able to control their every move. I don't believe Joe Biden is a "fool", but someone is allowing him to fill that role. So, in summary, it's going to take someone who is of sound mind to beat Donald J. Trump. Biden is not.
So anyway, Jim UK - why do you care? You have no stake in what happens in America. I've heard from plenty of folks in the UK who WISH they had a President like Trump. Seems not everyone in your own backyard agrees with you. Unless, of course, you are a Globalist who supports One World Order. Then I would understand your position.
Chris

It is very interesting to see what is happening in the USA and my opinion is that Trump is a homophobic, transphobic misoyginist who cannot open his mouth without telling a lie. We have the same here with Boris Johnson who is equally as obnoxious as Trump. Trump won't win again, I have gathered that much from the polls.

h***@aol.com

2020-07-08 20:24:22 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Trump is going to lose big-time.

Now to you, Jim UK: We'll see. You think that because you watch CNN with all the negative press about our President that everyone agrees with that garbage? This is a HUGE country, and it has MANY people who are never represented on CNN's National news outlets. We are a shut-out (of the news) MAJORITY! The Democrats candidate this year is Joe Biden. There are serious questions whether he could be diagnosed with dementia. THIS is who the Democrats want to put up as their candidate! The poor man! Someone should have pity on him and get him treatment. The Democrats are SO desperate to get Trump out of office that they will allow this taken-advantage-of human being to be paraded about (when they allow him to come out of his basement in Delaware to speak) using a pre-written statement created for his supporters. (There is NO WAY that this man, in HIS CONDITION is capable of writing these statements himself!) If he goes off-script, he is lost. He stumbles and fumbles his way through a totally incoherent babbling of mush. It's sad that out of 330,000,000 people in our country, HE is the one they choose to run against Trump. Of course, many people are aware that George Soros (a self-proclaimed Russian Communist) is pulling all the strings in the Democrat Party. He needs an incompetent "fool" to be able to control their every move. I don't believe Joe Biden is a "fool", but someone is allowing him to fill that role. So, in summary, it's going to take someone who is of sound mind to beat Donald J. Trump. Biden is not.
So anyway, Jim UK - why do you care? You have no stake in what happens in America. I've heard from plenty of folks in the UK who WISH they had a President like Trump. Seems not everyone in your own backyard agrees with you. Unless, of course, you are a Globalist who supports One World Order. Then I would understand your position.
Chris

The polls mean nothing this far away from any election here in the USA. And guess who is doing the polls? Yep, the Democrats. You aren't getting anything close to an accurate count from them right now. Remember in 2016, Hillary Clinton was leading by double digits all the way up to the election. I am not worried.

Chris

Kristen Cladek

2020-07-17 03:05:32 UTC

I was at work when it was on, and right after all my clients went to bed they replayed Barry's segment. I was happy I had a few minutes to sit and watch it. Going to work now a days is weird, especially because I'm not really doing my job. Seeing Barry was a treat.

-Kristen

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-21 01:03:04 UTC

So my team took care of a 6 year old girl this weekend; she was brought in with an acute asthma attack in the setting of having the Covid virus. She died.
6 years old, not a typo.

Day off today. So I came on over to this newsgroup for a bit of escapism.
Only to find you guys had gone all extra on this thread.

Much crap here to slog through!
So Imma just do bullet points in response to y'all.

first.....
-D: I will say whatever the hell I want to whoever the hell I want. If I want to call out Scooter on her amoral political views it's none of your fucking business. While I imagine Scooter enjoys sitting back and allowing others to defend her, she seems quite able to speak for herself, should she choose to do so.

-Jim: I am genuinely surprised that you, as a gay man, are calling someone out on their journey. Mr M came out when he was ready to do so. (Although I do think that damn National Enquirer outed him, and if that's true then fuck them.) But he seems happy where he is now. My point, though, is it's not for us to judge another's process. I imagine you would not want us to judge yours.

Mr M's CSWY schtick was an expected and anticipated part of his show. He sings romantic songs. He's thrilled a lot of fans by bringing them onstage. He delivers what the fans want and what they pay to see. He's a performer and a damn good one.
But! Barry Manilow the performer is not Barry Manilow the person. He did not, as you seem to think, lie to the fans. He has a private life. What makes you think we have a right to know personal details about him?

We will never know the person behind the performer and therefore we are in no position to judge his life and his coming out journey. I, for one, am happy for him that he can openly celebrate his life now. But like all of us he deserves his private life. Do I feel "lied to" because for years he sang with only women? No. because IT'S JUST A SHOW!

And his autobiography - I read it and yup, it was definitely an adjunct to promoting his musical career. But! the book was not meant to be a historical document. It was a light fluff piece meant to be purchased by the fans....and if he omitted facts about his sexuality, well, that was his perogative…..and it was the 1980s - not commonly accepted for public figures to come out.
I don't see any crimes against humanity here.

Anyway, I am surprised to see you criticize him in this way; I would think you'd have some empathy.

-Why do I refer to Barry Manilow as " Mr M "?
Well, it's quicker to write than "Mr Manilow".

My southern grandmother taught me that it's rude to call someone by their first name unless and until one has been properly introduced and invited to use their Christian name.
So I will refer to him as Mr Manilow (AKA Mr M, for purposes of this ng) until I meet him and he says "Call me Barry".
Meaning of course that I will forever refer to him as Mr Manilow.

The larger question, though, is WHY DO YOU CARE? Seriously asking.

-Similarly, I see my persistent crush on Mr Garry Kief continues to rile y'all up.

WHY it does is a mystery to me. AND why y'all do not SHARE that big old crush on the guy is also inexplicable. Oh well, more for me....

oh and Jim: 'gateway' to the Manilow?
Yeah, rest assured, if I ever found myself in the presence of The Handsomest One, the LAST THING I'd do is suggest "let's go find Barry...."

HELLS TO THE NO!

I'd bask in all that Kief-y handsomeness for as long as possible. AS.LONG.AS.POSSIBLE.

On a more serious note: Am I the only one here who finds all the "Barry is past his prime" talk extremely offensive? Like summer, the same people can be counted on to come around again and again, and pile on the criticisms of our guy. (Looking at you, Brenda)

And Jim, your characterization of Mr M's show is inaccurate.
Well, let me qualify this by saying I have not seen his LV show so I cannot comment on that one, but I have seen him perform a lot in the past few years in a bunch of different venues and every single time he's brought fresh energy.

Is he faking it? How the hell do I know. But what I DO know is this:
his performances are consistently exciting and everyone seems to have a great experience. You can feel the energy in the crowd every night. He is def NOT phoning it in. His shows are maybe not for everyone (just ask my hubs) but it's not fair to be so harsh in your criticism just because you're over him.

Lastly, you guys are so quick to condemn those of us who are fans.
All I know is I'm going to continue to attend Mr M's shows as long as he keeps performing, (and as long as Covid virus doesn't take me out) and I will treasure each experience and memory. My sister and I love to rehash our Manilow memories and plan future excursions. for us, it's fun, and we love the guy.

Are you judging me for that? Fine, you do what you gotta do! Doesn't change anything as far as I'm concerned. Imma be over here living my Fanilow life.

Annie

2020-07-21 02:11:04 UTC

Post by a***@gmail.com
So my team took care of a 6 year old girl this weekend; she was brought in with an acute asthma attack in the setting of having the Covid virus. She died.
6 years old, not a typo.
Day off today. So I came on over to this newsgroup for a bit of escapism.
Only to find you guys had gone all extra on this thread.
Much crap here to slog through!
So Imma just do bullet points in response to y'all.
first.....
-D: I will say whatever the hell I want to whoever the hell I want. If I want to call out Scooter on her amoral political views it's none of your fucking business. While I imagine Scooter enjoys sitting back and allowing others to defend her, she seems quite able to speak for herself, should she choose to do so.
-Jim: I am genuinely surprised that you, as a gay man, are calling someone out on their journey. Mr M came out when he was ready to do so. (Although I do think that damn National Enquirer outed him, and if that's true then fuck them.) But he seems happy where he is now. My point, though, is it's not for us to judge another's process. I imagine you would not want us to judge yours.
Mr M's CSWY schtick was an expected and anticipated part of his show. He sings romantic songs. He's thrilled a lot of fans by bringing them onstage. He delivers what the fans want and what they pay to see. He's a performer and a damn good one.
But! Barry Manilow the performer is not Barry Manilow the person. He did not, as you seem to think, lie to the fans. He has a private life. What makes you think we have a right to know personal details about him?
We will never know the person behind the performer and therefore we are in no position to judge his life and his coming out journey. I, for one, am happy for him that he can openly celebrate his life now. But like all of us he deserves his private life. Do I feel "lied to" because for years he sang with only women? No. because IT'S JUST A SHOW!
And his autobiography - I read it and yup, it was definitely an adjunct to promoting his musical career. But! the book was not meant to be a historical document. It was a light fluff piece meant to be purchased by the fans....and if he omitted facts about his sexuality, well, that was his perogative…..and it was the 1980s - not commonly accepted for public figures to come out.
I don't see any crimes against humanity here.
Anyway, I am surprised to see you criticize him in this way; I would think you'd have some empathy.
-Why do I refer to Barry Manilow as " Mr M "?
Well, it's quicker to write than "Mr Manilow".
My southern grandmother taught me that it's rude to call someone by their first name unless and until one has been properly introduced and invited to use their Christian name.
So I will refer to him as Mr Manilow (AKA Mr M, for purposes of this ng) until I meet him and he says "Call me Barry".
Meaning of course that I will forever refer to him as Mr Manilow.
The larger question, though, is WHY DO YOU CARE? Seriously asking.
-Similarly, I see my persistent crush on Mr Garry Kief continues to rile y'all up.
WHY it does is a mystery to me. AND why y'all do not SHARE that big old crush on the guy is also inexplicable. Oh well, more for me....
oh and Jim: 'gateway' to the Manilow?
Yeah, rest assured, if I ever found myself in the presence of The Handsomest One, the LAST THING I'd do is suggest "let's go find Barry...."
HELLS TO THE NO!
I'd bask in all that Kief-y handsomeness for as long as possible. AS.LONG.AS.POSSIBLE.
On a more serious note: Am I the only one here who finds all the "Barry is past his prime" talk extremely offensive? Like summer, the same people can be counted on to come around again and again, and pile on the criticisms of our guy. (Looking at you, Brenda)
And Jim, your characterization of Mr M's show is inaccurate.
Well, let me qualify this by saying I have not seen his LV show so I cannot comment on that one, but I have seen him perform a lot in the past few years in a bunch of different venues and every single time he's brought fresh energy.
his performances are consistently exciting and everyone seems to have a great experience. You can feel the energy in the crowd every night. He is def NOT phoning it in. His shows are maybe not for everyone (just ask my hubs) but it's not fair to be so harsh in your criticism just because you're over him.
Lastly, you guys are so quick to condemn those of us who are fans.
All I know is I'm going to continue to attend Mr M's shows as long as he keeps performing, (and as long as Covid virus doesn't take me out) and I will treasure each experience and memory. My sister and I love to rehash our Manilow memories and plan future excursions. for us, it's fun, and we love the guy.
Are you judging me for that? Fine, you do what you gotta do! Doesn't change anything as far as I'm concerned. Imma be over here living my Fanilow life.
Annie

TL;DR: Annie goes into a flying snit about how everyone is out to get her, and decides to get overly offended (and offensive.)

Jim: I wouldn't worry about it. She decided to come for me years ago about how she (as the friend of a gay person) knows LOADS more about the "gay lifestyle" more than I (as a gay man) ever possibly could. If you DARE criticize BarryCo, you've become the enemy.

Is a woman who's well past her teen years, yet continues to drool over a gay man as if she stands a chance in hell, totally off her rocker or just sad and pathetic? Asking for a friend...

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-21 02:47:02 UTC

D: I never 'came for you' and I never presented myself as knowing "more about the gay lifestyle" than you. You are pulling this stuff out of your ass, honey. You can dislike me all you want, but do not attribute stuff to me that is just not true.

Post by D
Is a woman who's well past her teen years, yet continues to drool over a gay >man as if she stands a chance in hell, totally off her rocker or just sad and >pathetic? Asking for a friend...

You spend A LOT of time worrying about what I post here, and composing narratives about me that are simply untrue (see above)

Whether I in fact am 'totally off my rocker', 'sad and pathetic', or just entertaining myself by poking y'all with sticks, you seem to be waaaay more concerned about me than what seems reasonable given that we are strangers on a ng. But, I get that this is how the internet works so there's that.

Whatever. But again, please refrain from posting outright lies about me.

Annie

2020-07-21 05:16:24 UTC

You spend A LOT of time worrying about what I post here, and composing narratives about me that are simply untrue (see above)
Whether I in fact am 'totally off my rocker', 'sad and pathetic', or just entertaining myself by poking y'all with sticks, you seem to be waaaay more concerned about me than what seems reasonable given that we are strangers on a ng. But, I get that this is how the internet works so there's that.
Whatever. But again, please refrain from posting outright lies about me.
Annie

"Refrain from posting outright lies"
Oh, honey. I believe the southern term would be "bless your heart." It's fine for you to attack others, though. Gotcha.
You just keep on feeling the fantasy, dear. As John Lennon once said: "whatever gets you thru the night."

Jim UK

2020-07-22 19:37:35 UTC

You spend A LOT of time worrying about what I post here, and composing narratives about me that are simply untrue (see above)
Whether I in fact am 'totally off my rocker', 'sad and pathetic', or just entertaining myself by poking y'all with sticks, you seem to be waaaay more concerned about me than what seems reasonable given that we are strangers on a ng. But, I get that this is how the internet works so there's that.
Whatever. But again, please refrain from posting outright lies about me.
Annie

By the way Annie, Barry hasn't been partnered with Garry Kief since 1978. That's another whopper of a lie.

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 00:52:32 UTC

By the way Annie, Barry hasn't been partnered with Garry Kief since 1978. That's >another whopper of a lie.

REALLY? How interesting! So if I write him a note and give it to you, will you pass it to him in class? Because he's sooooo cute......

smiley face surrounded by little hearts,

Annie

Jim UK

2020-07-23 03:53:39 UTC

By the way Annie, Barry hasn't been partnered with Garry Kief since 1978. That's >another whopper of a lie.

REALLY? How interesting! So if I write him a note and give it to you, will you pass it to him in class? Because he's sooooo cute......
smiley face surrounded by little hearts,
Annie

You're pathetic.

v***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 09:27:55 UTC

Jim
If Garry and Barry didn't meet in 1978, when did they meet and where?

Jim UK

2020-07-23 12:04:36 UTC

I do not know where but I can tell you as a fact that they were not together in 1978. In the 80's Barry was putting it around.

Post by v***@gmail.com
Jim
If Garry and Barry didn't meet in 1978, when did they meet and where?

q***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 13:12:49 UTC

Post by Jim UK
I do not know where but I can tell you as a fact that they were not together in 1978. In the 80's Barry was putting it around.

Post by v***@gmail.com
Jim
If Garry and Barry didn't meet in 1978, when did they meet and where?

--
Jim and Annie -- can we move on? Really. Better yet, take this to a private place please.

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 14:23:23 UTC

Post by q***@gmail.com

Post by Jim UK
I do not know where but I can tell you as a fact that they were not together in 1978. In the 80's Barry was putting it around.

Post by v***@gmail.com
Jim
If Garry and Barry didn't meet in 1978, when did they meet and where?

--
Jim and Annie -- can we move on? Really. Better yet, take this to a private place please.

Yes, I agree this needs to move on. No further discussion needs to take place.

Jim: do NOT make any effort to contact me privately; I will not respond, and any threats will be taken VERY seriously.

Annie

Jim UK

2020-07-23 14:27:58 UTC

What on earth makes you think that I want to communicate with you privately? Also, I have not threatened you a single time, show me where I have. Blah, blah, blah. I am extremely happy not to communicate with you - because you are a liar as well as a sicko.

Post by Jim UK
I do not know where but I can tell you as a fact that they were not together in 1978. In the 80's Barry was putting it around.

Post by v***@gmail.com
Jim
If Garry and Barry didn't meet in 1978, when did they meet and where?

--
Jim and Annie -- can we move on? Really. Better yet, take this to a private place please.

Yes, I agree this needs to move on. No further discussion needs to take place.
Jim: do NOT make any effort to contact me privately; I will not respond, and any threats will be taken VERY seriously.
Annie

v***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 13:39:42 UTC

Ok. But in 1982 my friend heard journalists outside his hotel in the UK talking about him and Garry so they were connected then.

Jim UK

2020-07-23 14:14:20 UTC

Maybe Garry was his manager in 1982 but I assure you their relationship was not monogamous.

Ok. But in 1982 my friend heard journalists outside his hotel in the UK talking about him and Garry so they were connected then.

q***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 14:27:12 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Maybe Garry was his manager in 1982 but I assure you their relationship was not monogamous.

Ok. But in 1982 my friend heard journalists outside his hotel in the UK talking about him and Garry so they were connected then.

--

Its weird that you think you need to make that point. Who ever said he was monogamous? Why would that be your business to share? Why would you even be concerned about that? Do you think its worth sharing that YOU have or have not been monogamous? Who cares? Why is it a point so worth making? While I understand (but disagree) with some being upset that Barry did not come out sooner, I have no idea why its anyone's business that he may or may not have been monogamous.

Jim UK

2020-07-23 14:29:25 UTC

Because Barry made a big song and dance about being with Garry since 1978. You think open relationships are fine?

Post by Jim UK
Maybe Garry was his manager in 1982 but I assure you their relationship was not monogamous.

Ok. But in 1982 my friend heard journalists outside his hotel in the UK talking about him and Garry so they were connected then.

--
Its weird that you think you need to make that point. Who ever said he was monogamous? Why would that be your business to share? Why would you even be concerned about that? Do you think its worth sharing that YOU have or have not been monogamous? Who cares? Why is it a point so worth making? While I understand (but disagree) with some being upset that Barry did not come out sooner, I have no idea why its anyone's business that he may or may not have been monogamous.

q***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 14:54:47 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Because Barry made a big song and dance about being with Garry since 1978. You think open relationships are fine?

Post by Jim UK
Maybe Garry was his manager in 1982 but I assure you their relationship was not monogamous.

Ok. But in 1982 my friend heard journalists outside his hotel in the UK talking about him and Garry so they were connected then.

--
Its weird that you think you need to make that point. Who ever said he was monogamous? Why would that be your business to share? Why would you even be concerned about that? Do you think its worth sharing that YOU have or have not been monogamous? Who cares? Why is it a point so worth making? While I understand (but disagree) with some being upset that Barry did not come out sooner, I have no idea why its anyone's business that he may or may not have been monogamous.

--

Jim - What does it matter what I think about open relationships? Incidentally, I don't believe in them, but also I do not believe I am anyone's judge--particularly when their behavior does not impact me. What I find troubling is that you think Barry's relationship is something worth offering your judgment on. Can you get to that root? Why? If Barry has been with Gary since 78 but not been monogamous, (and Garry has been ok with that either explicitly or implicitly) why does that matter to you?

Jim UK

2020-07-23 15:15:52 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Because Barry made a big song and dance about being with Garry since 1978. You think open relationships are fine?

Post by Jim UK
Maybe Garry was his manager in 1982 but I assure you their relationship was not monogamous.

Ok. But in 1982 my friend heard journalists outside his hotel in the UK talking about him and Garry so they were connected then.

--
Its weird that you think you need to make that point. Who ever said he was monogamous? Why would that be your business to share? Why would you even be concerned about that? Do you think its worth sharing that YOU have or have not been monogamous? Who cares? Why is it a point so worth making? While I understand (but disagree) with some being upset that Barry did not come out sooner, I have no idea why its anyone's business that he may or may not have been monogamous.

--
Jim - What does it matter what I think about open relationships? Incidentally, I don't believe in them, but also I do not believe I am anyone's judge--particularly when their behavior does not impact me. What I find troubling is that you think Barry's relationship is something worth offering your judgment on. Can you get to that root? Why? If Barry has been with Gary since 78 but not been monogamous, (and Garry has been ok with that either explicitly or implicitly) why does that matter to you?

You are probably right.

Jim UK

2020-07-23 15:21:39 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Because Barry made a big song and dance about being with Garry since 1978. You think open relationships are fine?

Post by Jim UK
Maybe Garry was his manager in 1982 but I assure you their relationship was not monogamous.

Ok. But in 1982 my friend heard journalists outside his hotel in the UK talking about him and Garry so they were connected then.

--
Its weird that you think you need to make that point. Who ever said he was monogamous? Why would that be your business to share? Why would you even be concerned about that? Do you think its worth sharing that YOU have or have not been monogamous? Who cares? Why is it a point so worth making? While I understand (but disagree) with some being upset that Barry did not come out sooner, I have no idea why its anyone's business that he may or may not have been monogamous.

--
Jim - What does it matter what I think about open relationships? Incidentally, I don't believe in them, but also I do not believe I am anyone's judge--particularly when their behavior does not impact me. What I find troubling is that you think Barry's relationship is something worth offering your judgment on. Can you get to that root? Why? If Barry has been with Gary since 78 but not been monogamous, (and Garry has been ok with that either explicitly or implicitly) why does that matter to you?

You are probably right.

I also think my problem with Barry and Garry is that it is all so hypocritical. It takes him 45 years to come out as gay, he then lies that they have been together since 1978 and all to make him look like a nice family man in the press. The Manilow organisation is nothing but lies.

q***@gmail.com

2020-07-24 01:19:41 UTC

Post by Jim UK
Because Barry made a big song and dance about being with Garry since 1978. You think open relationships are fine?

Post by Jim UK
Maybe Garry was his manager in 1982 but I assure you their relationship was not monogamous.

Ok. But in 1982 my friend heard journalists outside his hotel in the UK talking about him and Garry so they were connected then.

--
Its weird that you think you need to make that point. Who ever said he was monogamous? Why would that be your business to share? Why would you even be concerned about that? Do you think its worth sharing that YOU have or have not been monogamous? Who cares? Why is it a point so worth making? While I understand (but disagree) with some being upset that Barry did not come out sooner, I have no idea why its anyone's business that he may or may not have been monogamous.

--
Jim - What does it matter what I think about open relationships? Incidentally, I don't believe in them, but also I do not believe I am anyone's judge--particularly when their behavior does not impact me. What I find troubling is that you think Barry's relationship is something worth offering your judgment on. Can you get to that root? Why? If Barry has been with Gary since 78 but not been monogamous, (and Garry has been ok with that either explicitly or implicitly) why does that matter to you?

You are probably right.

--

I understand your frustration (even though I decline to comment on the allegations because I do not have any idea about their veracity). But even if its true that Barry has lied... haven't we all? And who can say they wouldn't lie if doing so meant a posh and dreamy lifetime? I would love to say that I wouldn't lie. That I am a person of principle. But I am not so sure.

Jim UK

2020-07-24 11:32:55 UTC

The whole Manilow organisation has lied since the start. Rotten.

g***@gmail.com

2020-07-24 16:16:01 UTC

Jim UK has all the dirt and I love him for that. Besides Pat Butler, who is a resource for deep dark Manilow gossip? Wigs? Affairs? Dentures? I am here for it.

Jim UK

2020-07-24 16:57:03 UTC

Post by g***@gmail.com
Jim UK has all the dirt and I love him for that. Besides Pat Butler, who is a resource for deep dark Manilow gossip? Wigs? Affairs? Dentures? I am here for it.

For years people on this newsgroup people slagged down Patricia Butler and did not believe what she was saying about their precious Barry. It turned out the book was telling the truth and was not gossip. I didn't see any apologies from the fans who were vile to her. Don't you think Barry would have sued if it was a pack of lies? Can you imagine if he had stood in court and said "I'm not gay"?

Yes, he wears a weave. Look at the second half of the 1980 Wembley show. He pushes his head down during the Could It Be Magic instrumental and a big bald spot on top is showing. I can assure you that bald spots grow, especially 40 years later. The last time I actually stood close to Barry was in 1994 and his hair looked very peculiar. All that money and Barry, Elton, etc. cannot get hair that looks real. Why do they bother?

As for dentures, I have no idea! I have some close-up photos from 1990 at the London Palladium where he did have a lot of silver fillings so they must have been his own then. It is obvious that he does have a mouth full of veneers. Nobody has teeth that perfect or white at his age.

As I have said before, the Manilow organisation has lied for years. They have no respect for the fans and consequently I have zero respect for them. Barry has denied having facelifts when it is quite obvious he has. He no longer has a top lip! Do you remember the photo of him coming out of the clinic with his face in bandages and wearing a blond wig? Nope, all denied and excuses were made. At least Joan Rivers was so open about hers - I miss her.

I love the 70's, 80's and some of his 90's material. The constant cover albums really weren't good. He got famous for singing beautiful ballads and gave up on the "golden handcuffs" - the music the fans want - and started going the easy route. Very sad. Phoning it all in must be so much easier for him. It's what he has done on the recent albums and on stage for countless years. Still, ker-ching $$$, some fans would clap if he stood there for 90 minutes and farted.

It is time that Barry retired. The cigarettes and vaping have not helped his voice and he should now bow out gracefully.

Jim UK

2020-07-24 16:57:59 UTC

Oops, sorry about the typos.

q***@gmail.com

2020-07-25 03:12:44 UTC

Post by g***@gmail.com
Jim UK has all the dirt and I love him for that. Besides Pat Butler, who is a resource for deep dark Manilow gossip? Wigs? Affairs? Dentures? I am here for it.

For years people on this newsgroup people slagged down Patricia Butler and did not believe what she was saying about their precious Barry. It turned out the book was telling the truth and was not gossip. I didn't see any apologies from the fans who were vile to her. Don't you think Barry would have sued if it was a pack of lies? Can you imagine if he had stood in court and said "I'm not gay"?
Yes, he wears a weave. Look at the second half of the 1980 Wembley show. He pushes his head down during the Could It Be Magic instrumental and a big bald spot on top is showing. I can assure you that bald spots grow, especially 40 years later. The last time I actually stood close to Barry was in 1994 and his hair looked very peculiar. All that money and Barry, Elton, etc. cannot get hair that looks real. Why do they bother?
As for dentures, I have no idea! I have some close-up photos from 1990 at the London Palladium where he did have a lot of silver fillings so they must have been his own then. It is obvious that he does have a mouth full of veneers. Nobody has teeth that perfect or white at his age.
As I have said before, the Manilow organisation has lied for years. They have no respect for the fans and consequently I have zero respect for them. Barry has denied having facelifts when it is quite obvious he has. He no longer has a top lip! Do you remember the photo of him coming out of the clinic with his face in bandages and wearing a blond wig? Nope, all denied and excuses were made. At least Joan Rivers was so open about hers - I miss her.
I love the 70's, 80's and some of his 90's material. The constant cover albums really weren't good. He got famous for singing beautiful ballads and gave up on the "golden handcuffs" - the music the fans want - and started going the easy route. Very sad. Phoning it all in must be so much easier for him. It's what he has done on the recent albums and on stage for countless years. Still, ker-ching $$$, some fans would clap if he stood there for 90 minutes and farted.
It is time that Barry retired. The cigarettes and vaping have not helped his voice and he should now bow out gracefully.

--

And here's to hoping you will do the same. We got it. You think he's a liar because he did not come out gay, because he wears a head piece, because he does not admit to facelifts and because of various other omissions--never mind the fact that none of these things are any business of the public anyway. You are entitled to the music or the show, having paid a fair price for them, and nothing more.

And speaking of the music, you also feel his abilities in that area have woefully deteriorated--notwithstanding the fact that he (1) continues to enjoy very strong sales at the gate in Vegas, (which is a result of the adoration of diehards and non-diehards) (2) sold nearly $4 million in tickets last year on Broadway backed by some truly remarkable performances, (3) could re-boot a national tour tomorrow, and (4) has a UK tour scheduled for months from now.

But...you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You're speaking to a group of (mostly) fans, however, so while we respect your opinion we don't need it rammed down our throat. Having voiced your opinion at the top of your lungs now (mostly to make a very meanspirited point), take your own advice for Barry and take it elsewhere. Your exit is stage left.

v***@gmail.com

2020-07-25 09:34:40 UTC

Remember the times when Garry would pop up on here to 'correct' our ramblings or send a personal email? I got one myself to tell me I was wrong about something I said. It turned out that that I had been wrong. I don't suppose he can be bothered these days.

q***@gmail.com

2020-07-25 12:39:35 UTC

Post by v***@gmail.com
Remember the times when Garry would pop up on here to 'correct' our ramblings or send a personal email? I got one myself to tell me I was wrong about something I said. It turned out that that I had been wrong. I don't suppose he can be bothered these days.

--

I assume his and Barry's older ages have taught them both a little restraint. Barry is almost 80, after all. Getting too old to read the Boards and chase down every misstatement--particularly these days where the discourse has become so toxic. While I am sure there may be some temptation some days, I bet Barry and Garry have decided they are happier not intervening.

Maria M

2020-07-25 13:14:58 UTC

Quinncy, I just think there is nothing intriguing on here anymore or worth correcting. This group was around long before the internet exploded and I think there’s no new “news” here anymore. Just bashing- and the same rehashing bashing.

Also, those of us who still love Barry don’t really post here so I wouldn’t call it a fan group. I’d rather chat on FB with friends, who are fans. There are plenty of us with careers and families who adore Barry and I don’t know why those that hate him are so affected by that.

But, whatever. I think he is extremely exciting in concert and he definitely doesn’t “phone it in” during a show as someone referenced on another post.

I have met some great people, just in the last few years, who are just as passionate as I am and we have had a blast. Five of us did Platinum together last year and had the best time- and so did Barry. We know he did because he called us out during the show. He talked about us and called us “the five babes”. He pointed to is during one of the many ovations and said “you are making this happen”. The audience was absolutely on fire and the band told us after that Barry was in a great mood and talked about us because our energy made the audience nuts. People in the audience also came up to us after the show to tell us they loved us. One woman said she had tickets to David Copperfield the next night but was going to see Barry again because of us. It was a night to remember and we made the most of it. I wish they would put that show on Manilow TV.

So, contrary to things that get said on here, Barry enjoys the audience. Does he hate doing it sometimes? Sure. Don’t we all hate our jobs sometimes? But if he didn’t want to perform- he wouldn’t.

I adore him as I have since I was 12 and I make no apologies for it. It won’t change and all the bullying and name calling for those of us that do love him is just mean spirited and childish. For those that hate him- fine for you. Have at it. But let those of us that love him do just that without all the negativity.

Maria

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-25 15:15:58 UTC

Post by Maria M
Quinncy, I just think there is nothing intriguing on here anymore or worth correcting. This group was around long before the internet exploded and I think there’s no new “news” here anymore. Just bashing- and the same rehashing bashing.
Also, those of us who still love Barry don’t really post here so I wouldn’t call it a fan group. I’d rather chat on FB with friends, who are fans. There are plenty of us with careers and families who adore Barry and I don’t know why those that hate him are so affected by that.
But, whatever. I think he is extremely exciting in concert and he definitely doesn’t “phone it in” during a show as someone referenced on another post.
I have met some great people, just in the last few years, who are just as passionate as I am and we have had a blast. Five of us did Platinum together last year and had the best time- and so did Barry. We know he did because he called us out during the show. He talked about us and called us “the five babes”. He pointed to is during one of the many ovations and said “you are making this happen”. The audience was absolutely on fire and the band told us after that Barry was in a great mood and talked about us because our energy made the audience nuts. People in the audience also came up to us after the show to tell us they loved us. One woman said she had tickets to David Copperfield the next night but was going to see Barry again because of us. It was a night to remember and we made the most of it. I wish they would put that show on Manilow TV.
So, contrary to things that get said on here, Barry enjoys the audience. Does he hate doing it sometimes? Sure. Don’t we all hate our jobs sometimes? But if he didn’t want to perform- he wouldn’t.
I adore him as I have since I was 12 and I make no apologies for it. It won’t change and all the bullying and name calling for those of us that do love him is just mean spirited and childish. For those that hate him- fine for you. Have at it. But let those of us that love him do just that without all the negativity.
Maria

I was just on the verge of leaving this group for good when I read Maria's post.

I appreciate the fact that people post news, links to interviews, and personal experiences here about our guy and that is what has kept me coming back lo these past 5 years. It's fun to chat about all things Manilow, and it's pure (and these days, necessary) escapism for me.

I'll be honest though, being targeted by D and Jim frightened me. The irrational rage and obsessive nature of the posts directed at me over ---well, nothing, really -- was alarming.

If my years working in the ER have taught me anything it's this: that level of rage can rapidly escalate to a dangerous level. I'm not saying it would happen, Jim lives in the UK after all, but I've seen it happen enough to be wary of the signs. Irrational rage, unchecked, never leads to a good outcome.

If I had one last thing to say to Jim it would be to encourage him to get the help he so clearly needs.

And if I had one thing to say to Mr M it would be to encourage him to keep that security team on the payroll.

Returning to the discussions here, I don't know why I feel the need to hop in and defend Mr M when the trash-talking commences. I know it's useless but it's my nature to jump in to all (reasonable) discussion. (Just ask Mr Annie!)

And, knowing me, I'll still do it. I belong to several other (all non-Manilow) groups and I've never experienced any discussion take such a dark turn. But, occasionally interacting with people who turn out to be - difficult - is just the cost of doing business on the internet, I guess. And, on reflection, it's not in my nature to let bullying and intimidation stop me from posting here, or cause me to edit myself.

Anyway, Maria's post reflects the spirit of what this group could/should be and why, speaking for myself anyway, I'm still here.

So thank you, Maria, for sharing your magical Manilow night with us. I love living vicariously through fellow fans, and I'm glad you had a wonderful experience.

Best,

Annie

marvin

2020-07-25 15:54:22 UTC

Dear Annie, Maria and Q,
Thank you all for the great posts. I love Barry's music, performances, and admire his love of sharing his abilities on stage, as well as the rare times he talks openly about his love of his many musicians (as he shared in the "Midnight With Manilow" post concert event with his fans), many friends in the music business and his love of the great singers/songwriters of the past as he shared in the BBC series "They Write The Songs".
Although I will honestly admit that Barry is not in peak form as he was when he was younger (but then I am also not in my peak from anymore either), I am still grateful that he performs and he is still with us.
I understand to some degree the disappointment of some fans feeling that Barry has not been open about his private life in the past, and I think sometimes that younger fans (and I was a young fan at one time) look to the performer as some kind of idol and expect perfection upon the performer in a way we would never expect of ourselves, our friends or family.
But, when you get older, you learn that a performer not telling us about his age, sexuality and other very personal parts of his private life is really not a problem, provided that there are no issues involving crime or sexual abuse.
We all know of performers who abuse others financially and sexually or even abused themselves with drug issues. Thank goodness Barry never has been involved in those issues and, to my knowledge, never has gone out of his way to damage his reputation among his fans and peers of being anything other than a very considerate person (given his work with raising money for musical instruments in schools) and for that, I will also admire Barry forever for never making an "ass" of himself as some celebrities do.
Thank you Barry for all you do and bringing all of us together here. Regards, Marvin

Maria M

2020-07-25 16:21:48 UTC

Hi Marvin-

I appreciate what you are saying. I just have to say I have never felt Barry lied to me or deceived me. I pay for a show and I get a great show. I don’t live with him. I don’t sleep with him. His personal life and whatever surgery he has done are his business, not mine.

I care about him as a human being and as a performer. They are separate parts that make up the whole and I accept him for who he is.

Maria

Maria M

2020-07-25 16:17:47 UTC

Annie-

Keep doing what you do. The Garry love doesn’t bother me at all. He is quite handsome and charming. Definitely say “hi” to him if you see him at a show.

When we did our Platinum we saw him afterwards as well. He said he tried to get to us in the front row but could not. It was nuts. He said we were crazy and loved our energy. I don’t think I could ever repeat that night. It was one of a kind.

We were in Vegas again in the fall and my friend and I were on the side stage and my husband was in the balcony. Barry came right over to us. Hugged & kissed my friend and grabbed my hand. We made him laugh when he was doing the small piano bit because we cheered so loud. After the show Garry appeared right in front of us to say “hi”. He is usually back with Barry after the show not in the audience so it caught us off guard.

Have to tell you Annie- if you are a longtime fan- they appreciate you and know you. If you are an asshole- they know that too.

Make sure you get to Vegas.

Maria

v***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 17:02:14 UTC

Believe me, the journalists in 1982 weren't discussing Garry's management skills!

Jim UK

2020-07-22 19:35:13 UTC

You spend A LOT of time worrying about what I post here, and composing narratives about me that are simply untrue (see above)
Whether I in fact am 'totally off my rocker', 'sad and pathetic', or just entertaining myself by poking y'all with sticks, you seem to be waaaay more concerned about me than what seems reasonable given that we are strangers on a ng. But, I get that this is how the internet works so there's that.
Whatever. But again, please refrain from posting outright lies about me.
Annie

"Is a woman who's well past her teen years, yet continues to drool over a gay man as if she stands a chance in hell, totally off her rocker or just sad and pathetic? Asking for a friend...

Sell done D, Annie is both. She is pathetic. She reminds me of an 8 year old kid screaming at David Cassidy when he was a teen. Annie, you are a stupid, pitiful woman. She even said in another post that she fantasizes that her husband is Garry Kief when they have sex. She is so creepy and her thinking that makes my spine crawl. Yuk.

Jim UK

2020-07-22 19:41:27 UTC

You spend A LOT of time worrying about what I post here, and composing narratives about me that are simply untrue (see above)
Whether I in fact am 'totally off my rocker', 'sad and pathetic', or just entertaining myself by poking y'all with sticks, you seem to be waaaay more concerned about me than what seems reasonable given that we are strangers on a ng. But, I get that this is how the internet works so there's that.
Whatever. But again, please refrain from posting outright lies about me.
Annie

"Is a woman who's well past her teen years, yet continues to drool over a gay man as if she stands a chance in hell, totally off her rocker or just sad and pathetic? Asking for a friend...
Sell done D, Annie is both. She is pathetic. She reminds me of an 8 year old kid screaming at David Cassidy when he was a teen. Annie, you are a stupid, pitiful woman. She even said in another post that she fantasizes that her husband is Garry Kief when they have sex. She is so creepy and her thinking that makes my spine crawl. Yuk.

Oops, I meant Well done. Typo.

2020-07-23 02:12:01 UTC

You spend A LOT of time worrying about what I post here, and composing narratives about me that are simply untrue (see above)
Whether I in fact am 'totally off my rocker', 'sad and pathetic', or just entertaining myself by poking y'all with sticks, you seem to be waaaay more concerned about me than what seems reasonable given that we are strangers on a ng. But, I get that this is how the internet works so there's that.
Whatever. But again, please refrain from posting outright lies about me.
Annie

"Is a woman who's well past her teen years, yet continues to drool over a gay man as if she stands a chance in hell, totally off her rocker or just sad and pathetic? Asking for a friend...
Sell done D, Annie is both. She is pathetic. She reminds me of an 8 year old kid screaming at David Cassidy when he was a teen. Annie, you are a stupid, pitiful woman. She even said in another post that she fantasizes that her husband is Garry Kief when they have sex. She is so creepy and her thinking that makes my spine crawl. Yuk.

Jim...
What with the whining of "I can say whatever I want", the idea that I'm somehow lying about her. etc., etc... I was thinking a more apt comparison would be to a certain toddler occupying the White House.

Jim UK

2020-07-23 03:57:45 UTC

You spend A LOT of time worrying about what I post here, and composing narratives about me that are simply untrue (see above)
Whether I in fact am 'totally off my rocker', 'sad and pathetic', or just entertaining myself by poking y'all with sticks, you seem to be waaaay more concerned about me than what seems reasonable given that we are strangers on a ng. But, I get that this is how the internet works so there's that.
Whatever. But again, please refrain from posting outright lies about me.
Annie

"Is a woman who's well past her teen years, yet continues to drool over a gay man as if she stands a chance in hell, totally off her rocker or just sad and pathetic? Asking for a friend...
Sell done D, Annie is both. She is pathetic. She reminds me of an 8 year old kid screaming at David Cassidy when he was a teen. Annie, you are a stupid, pitiful woman. She even said in another post that she fantasizes that her husband is Garry Kief when they have sex. She is so creepy and her thinking that makes my spine crawl. Yuk.

Annie is everything I hate about the fanatical Manilow fans. People like her are the reason Barry needs security. She has said that she imagines the gay man Garry Kief is fucking her when she has sex with her husband. Scary. I feel very sorry for Barry to have fans as nauseous as her.

Jim UK

2020-07-22 19:28:12 UTC

You can judge me all you like, your opinion of me means nothing. I knew Barry is gay years ago and his constant "Look at me, I'm straight act" was disrespectful, insulting and offensive. Yes, he has a private life but there is a massive difference between not coming as gay and pretending to be straight. Can you really not see just how horrible that is?

The book was not meant to be light fluff. It was meant to be an honest autobiography about his life. It wasn't. Why would it be? His whole life is a lie.

Why do you continue to stick up for Barry? Thank goodness 99% of the fans on here have been around long enough to have got over your exagerrated flattery and screaming hero worship. You haven't and that makes makes you a very sad person.

How dare Barry charge so much for a meet and greet. That is also a huge insult to the fans who have put literally thousands of their dollars into his pocket over the years. And he still charges to say hello? It's rotten. And before you say it, I have met Barry backstage and have been to lots of his signings in London (last signing I went to was in 1994). I'm really not desparate enough to want to pay $1500 to stand in front of him and have a photo taken with his plastic face and bad wig. Yes, it is a wig. Did you not know that?

Go and see the show and enjoy it. Have a nice time. I have wonderful memories since I first saw him on the One Voice tour in 1980. It is nowhere the same or as electric as it was in those days. He does not like and has no respect for the fans, especially the fawning, OTT ones like you. I am so glad I saw through his bullshit and am happy listening to his old recordings which remind me of happy times.

Barry IS past his prime. His voice is fucked and he does not bring fresh energy. He brings a sore throat and creaky hips, that's all. I can criticise him because I remember how magical he used to be. He needs to retire gracefully.

He is not "our guy" or "Mr. M", FFS. "Fanilow". Eeeurrggh. you are clueless.

a***@gmail.com

2020-07-23 00:42:56 UTC

Well, I thought bitchy queens were supposed to be fun......

clearly not the case out here amongst the frantic former fanilows.

hugs & kisses girls,

Annie

Jim UK

2020-07-23 03:52:59 UTC

Well, I thought bitchy queens were supposed to be fun......
clearly not the case out here amongst the frantic former fanilows.
hugs & kisses girls,
Annie

And in gay terms you are known as an old fag hag. Said with love from this bitchy queen.

Jim UK

2020-07-23 12:02:23 UTC

Hugs and kisses "girls"?
And there we have it. Annie, you're a homophobic piece of shit. I guessed your true colours would shine through eventually. You have a problem with Barry and Garry being gay.